The detailed breakdown of the Industrial Relations Bill

https://youtu.be/lU4SFG_Uyl4

I was unable to give this speech in the Senate last night but it’s important you get these details. While the government has backed down on changing the BOOT test after One Nation pressure, there is still much to fix in the casual employment mess. There is a lot of chest beating about this bill but no real detail, only One Nation will give you this amount of detail and transparency about our analysis.

Transcript

In serving the people of Queensland & Australia I want to discuss our shared need for: 

  • Improving industrial relations to protect honest workers and employers, especially casual workers.
  • Our concerns for business, particularly small business.
  • The bigger picture and a vision for a secure future for Australia. Today the government took the first step in recognising One Nation’s legitimate concerns for employers and employees – it booted out the BOOT! 

We listened: We are listening to workers – casual and permanent – across Queensland and Australia. Listening to all stakeholders in employment including welfare organisations. Listening to UB’s and union bodies. Listening to small and medium sized businesses. Listening to employer and industry groups. Listening to the government.Listening reveals that across our country, people are hurting, feeling vulnerable. Afraid for their jobs, worried they won’t be able to pay the mortgage, afraid of the future. Everyday Australians are hurting from government COVID restrictions and lock-downs keeping people away from jobs, businesses and loved ones. 

The Problems with this Bill: There are many problems with this Bill that need to be resolved to make it safer for both employees and employers. There are many ‘hairs’ on this Bill that need to be trimmed to make it fit-for-purpose. Our concern is for the unintended consequences of this government’s so-called reforms that are really just tinkerings. We’re investing the time and effort to work with all parties to improve outcomes for employees and employers. 

The first problem is with the definition of “casual”, The proposed casual definition at Section 15A is lengthy and complex, it suggests that the employer’s intention expressed at the time of commencement of employment is the only important factor, determining employment status. It’s not.  Hunter Valley casual coal miners we’ve championed were clearly permanent and not casual as the dishonest labour hire company, Chandler MacLeod designated. 

This must be clarified in the Bill or Explanatory Memorandum. The definition also refers to “no firm advance commitment” yet many casuals have a firm advance commitment. Because it suits both them and the business as in single parents working during school hours and in takeaway shop. The definition of casuals in S.15(A)(2) is a loose compromise because the term ”as required” is confusing and must be removed. Last week, Mr Bukarica, Legal Director for the CFMEU Mining Division and his team agreed that their union had ignored casuals for many years. The same can be said of this government. The CFMEU in the Hunter Valley and the government have contributed to the exploitation and confusion in the permanent casual rort. 

The second concern we have is with the proposed ‘right to conversion’ Many casuals have a regular pattern of hours, yet Sections 66A and B suggests that this means casuals are actually permanent. This section as it stands throws many burdens on small business and puts the casual loading at risk for workers who enjoy the benefit of a casual loading. 

The proscriptive nature of required record keeping and timeframes for offers of conversion, as in the proposed Section 66B, represent a burden for small business who cannot afford the time off the tools.The answer is to take this unnecessary burden away from small business and likewise to review the silly ‘windows of opportunity’ workers have to apply for conversion.

Even more record keeping. Yet sadly this change will do nothing to change how companies like BHP exploit and abuse casuals through labour hire arrangements. BHP and big business can randomise rosters and extend casual arrangements to suit themselves. Some already are and that disrupts workers needlessly. 

The third concern is the new Section 545A for offsetting claims This introduces a statutory rule for offsetting claims for unpaid entitlements from permanent casuals.  Calling this double dipping in many instances is a lie. Let’s be clear I do not support double dipping on entitlements. Yet employees have a right to entitlements under circumstances where they have been treated differently to a true casual. 

We will fight for retaining and protecting these workers’ entitlements just as we have done for 18 months in the Hunter Valley. The Full Court in the Rossato case clearly stated that the casual loading paid to a casual worker did not offset their entitlement to paid leave as guaranteed to all permanent workers under the Fair Work Act.

The government seems to think it has to change this because the decision could impact big business profits. Section 545A (1) (b) takes this even further and states that it protects employers where they pay a flat hourly rate even when it’s not clear whether a loading is being paid. What’s going on here? How is this fair or making things simple? 

In the Hunter Valley, casual mine workers were put on permanent rosters and in permanent roles beside the permanent workforce. It could not be more clear, yet the IR laws created ambiguity and injured workers are still waiting for their just entitlements nearly six years later. As it stands, this provision could deny workers their lawful entitlements where they were not given a casual loading or when the EA resulted from a flawed process. 

I commend the CFMEU Mining Division’s Legal Director Mr Bukarica for the courage and integrity he showed when in answer to my questions he acknowledged the Hunter Valley CFMEU’s role in colluding with employers to deprive casuals of basic employment entitlements and rights. 

We will work with the government to create a workable solution to ensure workers are treated fairly. This is crucial and not negotiable. Small Business: Small business needs clarity and simplicity. It deserves a fair go and cannot afford the days or weeks away from work to defend a case when the big end of town can dig into deep pockets to pay lawyers and consultants. 

While the overwhelming majority of claims against small business settle before arbitration, small business owners have suggested this is because they have learned to pay ‘go away’ money. Thousands of dollars. We have received representations suggesting that the increases in fines (Schedule 5, Parts 1, 4, and 5) and new criminal penalties (Schedule 5, Part 7) be suspended for 2 years for small businesses to soften the blow for an already damaged part of Australia’s economy. 

We believe this is worthy of support. Small business deserves and needs a tailor-made solution for them. Small business spans multiple awards and cannot afford enterprise agreements. They cannot submit to the inflexible rules that the IR Club creates for its benefit and for lawyers’ financial benefit. 

The IR Omnibus Bill so far: The Prime Minister describes the IR system as, quote: “not fit-for-purpose, especially given the scale of the jobs challenge that we now face as a nation.” Who can forget the Dyson Heydon’s (Royal Commission) diabolical findings on union bosses? The whole nation saw the need for changes to protect workers from lawbreaking union bosses. 

One Nation supported govt legislation to implement the Royal Commission’s findings. We supported the ABCC, ROC and the first Ensuring Integrity bill. Yet we could not support the govt’s ill-considered second Ensuring Integrity bill. Nor can we support this Bill as it stands.

I’ve spoken often about Hunter Valley coal miners being exploited, abused and discarded as a result of the collusion between BHP, Chandler Macleod, the labour-hire firm and the Hunter Valley CFMMEU. And while the government knew about the “casuals” problem for years it did nothing until Rosatto threatened big business profits.

One Nation is standing up to protect workers’ and employers’ rights. One Nation knows that only employers, entrepreneurs, small businesses and workers create jobs. Government COVID restrictions have done enormous damage. Yet the govt-induced recession is not an excuse to cut pay or job security.

Instead, for our country’s sake, let’s make a genuine attempt at IR Reform together. 

We’re ready to work with the government and stakeholders to improve outcomes for employers and for employees. For businesses, especially small businesses and for honest workers.

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What we need to fix Industrial Relations

The biggest problem with the current Industrial Relations system is that it is too complex for most employees or Mum and Dad businesses to understand.

Complexity only helps fill IR lawyers’ pockets and make union bosses look busy. We need to simplify the entire IR system to restore the country’s productive capacity.

Transcript

Good news, Pauline and I have had a victory already in the industrial relations negotiations. Good industrial relations legislation is fundamental to rebuilding the productive capacity of Australian business. And for that we need to restore productive workplace relations between employees and employers.

That’s fundamental. The government claims its legislation, which will be before the Senate in March, will bring reform to create jobs and stimulate economic recovery after government-imposed COVID restrictions. I’m consulting with union bosses, industry groups, small business and many other groups on the government’s proposed bill.

My initial summary is that there is a long way to go yet, to get our support on the legislation. The stakeholders that I’ve listened to so far do not believe the legislation, as is, will deliver on reform, job creation, or economic recovery. For any chance to stimulate recovery and protect jobs, we need real improvement.

First and foremost, I’m passionate about positive employer-employee relationships and a fit-for-purpose IR system. From my experience my aims for real industrial relations reform include:

  • Firstly, protecting honest workers.
  • Secondly, protecting small business.
  • Thirdly, restoring our country’s productive capacity.

In summary, my view of the proposed legislation is that I do not support:

  • Firstly, complex legislation that is beyond the average small to medium business to understand and manage.
  • Secondly, more money being diverted to the IR club, the lawyers, the IR consultants, the union bosses, and industry associations, who profit from complicated legislation.
  • Thirdly, any change to the better off overall test, or the BOOT test, it needs to be left as it is to protect workers.

When we told the government we could not accept changes to the BOOT test, they backed down and agreed to leave it as it is. One Nation does support: Scaled back simple fit-for-purpose IR legislation. A better deal for small business.

IR legislation needs to be made more accessible for this vital sector of our economy, the biggest employer in Australia. Thirdly, a clearer definition of casual and the right to remain as a casual with appropriate casual loadings. And fourthly, protection of casuals’ back pay entitlements without double-dipping.

As I’ve already said, one of the most important elements of IR should be the employer and employee relationship, without the interference of the IR club. I’ve made a submission to the inquiry on the industrial relation legislation, and I’ve contributed to questions at the hearing in Townsville.

And it was pleasing to hear that even the union bosses are fed up with the excessive complexities in industrial relations and the need for lawyers. They wanna get rid of lawyers. There must be a better way and it’s time for a change. We know that small to medium sized businesses have suffered the most under government-imposed COVID restrictions.

And One Nation is committed to a better deal for small business and honest workers. While IR is a key piece of the bigger picture Australia needs for lasting economic recovery, of more importance are energy security and energy affordability, investment in skills development and a fair, honest and transparent tax system for individuals and businesses, and eliminating overregulation.

One Nation continues to listen to stakeholders to ensure we can bring about the improvements that are needed to make the legislation more useful for Australia’s economic recovery. Better for business, better for jobs, and better for honest workers.

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Bill “trashes” casual regime for small business: One Nation

This article is re-published with the permission of Workplace Express.

Pauline Hanson’s One Nation says the Morrison Government’s Omnibus IR Bill is “sadly lacking” on a range of key measures, including proposed changes to casual employment and the Better Off Overall Test. 

The party’s IR spokesperson, Senator Malcolm Roberts, has called for substantial amendments to the Bill, arguing it will “hurt many businesses and affect the working conditions and take-home pay of many everyday Australians”. 

The senator says in a submission to a Senate inquiry into the Fair Work Act Amendment (Supporting Australia’s Jobs and Economic Recovery) that the changes are aimed mostly at big business and the “IR Club” rather than small to medium employers. 

“We do not see genuine reform,” he says. 

“This is more words in legislation, more rules and more vagueness in complex definitions. 

“The outcome of this Omnibus IR Bill is that it will not create certainty for people who just want to get back to work. 

“It will add to the complexity of business life. 

“Australia’s industrial relations system no longer serves employers and employees; it serves the people who benefit from its complexity. 

“The IR Club, the class action lawyers, union bosses and the big employer organisations all earn money which could be better spent by employers and employees on securing jobs and income.” 

With Labor and the Greens opposed to the Bill, its fate looks set to turn on the votes of five crossbench senators – Jacqui Lambie Network’s Jacqui Lambie, PHON’s Pauline Hanson and Malcolm Roberts, Centre Alliance’s Stirling Griff and South Australian Independent Rex Patrick. 

Senator Roberts, a former coal mine manager and engineer, has long complained that big employers have abused casual work arrangements in the coal industry through the use of long-term labour hire arrangements (see Related Article). 

The Bill’s proposed definition of casual employment determines an employee’s status based only on the original offer made to the employee, without taking into account “any subsequent conduct of the parties”. 

Senator Roberts argues in the submission that IR Minister Christian Porter is “trashing the ‘long term flexible but predictable’ casual employment arrangements that suited many small business employers and employees”. 

He is doing so, he says, because of abuse by “big business”, citing as an example labour hire arrangements in the coal mining industry. 

Senator Roberts says the legislation will mean that a person is a casual employee if the employer makes an offer of employment on the basis of no firm advance commitment to continuing and indefinite work according to an agreed pattern of work. 

“It is arguable that a consequence of these provisions as they are envisaged is that, if an employer does not make an offer in the exact terms (be it in writing or orally), the employee will, at law, be considered a permanent employee as they will not fall within the definition of casual employee. 

“Many employers, especially small business employers, are unlikely to offer casual employment to a person in such clearly defined terms. 

“This is particularly the case when an offer of employment is made orally which is more common than formalised employment arrangements.” 

The senator says that an employer might consider they have offered casual employment but, if they have failed to meet the prescriptive terms, that employment will be permanent by default. 

“This is likely to lead to significant confusion among employers and employees about their employment relationship and the entitlements that derive from the characterisation of the relationship,” says Roberts. 

“Conversely, an employee who falls within the definition of casual employee at the commencement of employment but whose nature of employment subsequently changes, is nonetheless deemed to continue to be a casual employee. 

“While casual work is not for everyone, rewriting it as the Government has done may have many unintended consequences for everyday Australians, such as pay cuts and rosters that change from week to week to protect the employer from creating a ‘firm advanced commitment’.” 

BOOT change also problematic

Senator Roberts also argues against the Bill seeking to allow a two-year window for the FWC to approve enterprise agreements that do not meet the BOOT where the employer has been affected by the pandemic. 

He says the Fair Work Act already allows the Commission to approve an agreement that does not pass the BOOT if it is satisfied that, because of exceptional circumstances, the approval of the agreement would not be contrary to the public interest. 

The proposed change is an “unnecessary amendment and, furthermore, significantly dilutes the fundamental protection of the BOOT.” 

“I propose that the government keeps the BOOT as it is and ensures that the FW Commission has better governance to review and to improve agreements – due diligence not a rubber stamp.” 

Senator Roberts also calls for the Morrison Government to:

  • create a dedicated small business award or enterprise agreement;
  • simplify the small business code and reduce the maximum compensation payable by small businesses in dismissal cases from 6 months to 3 months;
  • review and rewrite the entire Fair Work Act and IR structure, after the two-year deadline for the flexible arrangements expires in about 2023;
  • focus the efforts of FWO inspectors primarily on solutions rather than penalties; and
  • introducing longer-term greenfields agreements for “tier 2” Australian construction companies.

Pauline Hanson’s One Nation submission to the Senate inquiry into the Fair Work Amendment (Supporting Australia’s Jobs and Economic Recovery) Bill 2020, February 2020

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Coal LSL and mining entitlements fraud – Adjournment Speech 2 February 2020

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I spoke on my ongoing investigation into the case of mine worker Simon Turner. A huge abuse has happened here and government agencies have done nothing.

Transcript

As a servant of the people of Queensland and Australia, I have a duty to raise and fix issues that are both hurting and concerning everyday Australians.  As a Senator I work for the people.

Today, I raise a matter of great concern for everyday Australians – particularly our hardworking coal miners.

Australian workers are feeling afraid for their jobs, for their livelihoods, for their future. Workers need fairness, integrity, trust and accountability.  I’m concerned for the many workers and businesses small and large that have suffered from state and federal govt COVID restrictions.  Business leaders and workers are all looking for direction from this government, yet at the same time a government authority is doing the wrong thing and abusing workers.

What I’ve witnessed since coal miner, Stuart Bonds and I took up the cause of the exploited, abused and discarded Hunter Valley casual coal miners, is a mass of evidence pointing to potential systemic failures and possibly corruption inside a government agency. An agency that Hunter Valley CFMEU bosses and Minerals Council of NSW executives jointly govern and direct.  We Australians cannot afford our own government to continue shonky behaviour at a time when we should be spending our money wisely.

Thanks to Stuart Bonds’ voluntary help for abandoned workers like Simon Turner and others the Coal LSL scam was uncovered.  Simon Turner and many workers wrote for help from their local MPs including Joel Fitzgibbon six times and to this day Joel Fitzgibbons has ignored their letters. Six times.

Joel Fitzgibbon has been the member for Hunter since 1996 so it’s surprising that he does not know that coal miners are the key to this area’s future.

The agency involved is the Coal Mining Industry (Long Service Leave Funding) Corporation – better known as ‘Coal LSL’. An Australian Government corporation established to regulate and manage long service leave entitlements on behalf of eligible employees in the black coal mining industry.

What I hear is that governance isn’t just lacking, it’s absent.  I’m yet to hear why causals get a different LSL rate to permanents on the same rosters, same work.

As an example, Coal LSL’s system seems incapable of checking whether an employee actually receives their correct long service leave entitlement. Coal LSL just accepts an employer letter and pays the employer. No validation or checking of payments to entitlements to actual payment to employees.

A recent analysis of information that Coal LSL themselves provided reveals evidence of duplication, even triplication, of transactions paid to employers. The reporting recently provided to me is unclear[1]. Levy reimbursements during 2018 include a category for details “Not readily available”. For example, the $264,000 of refunds, not reimbursements, paid out from July 2017 to November 2018. What are these refunds, where’s the transparency?   Coal LSL makes lump sum payments that, again, make reconciliation complex. For example, one of BHP’s OS entities in the Hunter Valley received $187,881.77 in a single transaction in May 2020. For who?

It seems that Coal LSL may not be able to confirm employees are even real people as they do not collect ABN or tax file numbers. They simply get a name and a date of birth. They’re operating in the dark ages and need a modern system to prevent fraud?

In some cases we have heard of companies in Singleton being reimbursed for long service leave even though they do not work in coal mining. In one case, Coal LSL paid reimbursements totalling approx. $57,000 to the wife of the owner of a Queensland company with no state office. Why?

We have learned of an employee not receiving on-boarding information about the Coal LSL scheme, particularly in regard to the employee option to opt out of the scheme and save money. In one case recently a coal miner reported that Coal LSL debited his entitlement for 250 hours of long service, when he actually had not taken leave from his employer. Where’s the governance?

Concerns have been expressed to me that Coal LSL’s current processes might enable a bogus company to register and then to possibly launder money through Coal LSL and then reclaim the funds ‘cleaned’ and available to be transferred to criminals. Where are the checks in the system?  The CEO whose annual remuneration is a staggering $430,187 and her Governance Officer have clearly been asleep at the wheel.

I have personally challenged Coal LSL many times in Senate Estimates and even they do not understand how entitlements are accrued, invested, reconciled and paid to individual coal miners. The CEO could not provide a satisfactory response to a simple question in regard to how Coal LSL accounts for monies paid in and monies paid to employees.

The question is that if bogus companies have been paid in the last seven years, then how could this not be picked up? I’m informed that Coal LSL takes registered companies at their word. That has already led to Coal LSL admitting serious errors in miners’ accounts and entitlements.

As Coal LSL has revealed in senate estimates, it has not listened to the complaints of many coal miners who’ve found discrepancies in their entitlements. Once raised, Coal LSL is slow or unresponsive.

I encourage all coal miners to check that Coal LSL has correctly stated their entitlements so they’re not ripped off. Simon Turner, an exploited Hunter Valley coal miner is a case in point where, after years of requests and complaints, Coal LSL took the word of his rogue employer, Chandler Macleod. Over solid evidence and over Simon’s legitimate requests for a fair go.

Coal LSL is lax at informing employees of their options with many casual miners not told that they’re entitled to choose to not contribute to the scheme and to instead take their employers’ contributions as cash in hand. Let’s face it, at the moment Coal LSL receives the employer contributions for many casual coal miners who it never has to pay out if employees do not stay for the eight year qualifying period. Where does this mountain of cash go and how is it accounted for? What I do know is that many casuals would be better avoiding Coal LSL.

There are many, many examples of Coal LSL failing in its obligations and failing to have appropriate checks and balances to verify that employees are getting their entitlements.

For all we know there may be systemic corruption on this governments’ watch. Have unaccountable union bosses and Minerals Council of NSW executives on this Morrison government authority lined their pockets using bogus companies at the expense of coal miners throughout Australia? We just do not know? Clearly, it’s time for change.

We’re talking about an authority that thousands of workers rely on to protect long service leave entitlements. An authority with a culture biased towards pleasing the employer not on protecting and being accountable for employee’s entitlements. This is not the Coal LSL clerical staff’s fault. It’s the Board and management who must stand up and be held to account. Governance does not exist and the culture of Coal LSL is not solutions or customer focussed. Clearly, it’s time for change.

For too long, Coal LSL has operated as a rogue government authority. Until I brought them before Senate Estimates they were never called upon to explain their actions.  It was the suffering of exploited and abandoned workers like Simon Turner that put a spotlight on Coal LSL and its culture that ignores abandoned workers. Clearly, it’s time for change. And it must be now.

Today, Stuart Bonds and I are strongly advocating for change in Coal LSL and a reconciliation of all accounts and entitlements to ensure that workers and employers are not being ripped off.

Stuart Bonds and I pledge to work for justice for workers hurting from the actions of unthinking, uncaring, unaccountable government authorities like Coal LSL. Authorities under the joint control of shadowy union bosses and a Minerals Council acting for uncaring mining conglomerates. The same mining companies and union bosses that enabled the exploitation of casual coal miners in the Hunter Valley.

Clearly, it’s time for a change. Coal LSL needs to be taken out of the hands of self-interested parties. Coal LSL management needs a broom put through it. A change to build an open, honest transparent, accountable culture to protect the entitlements of everyday Australian workers.

I implore all workers and everyday Australians – rural and city – to vote with your feet. Please go and tell your local union branch, member of parliament and senator that you expect that workers’ rights and entitlements to be protected.  Tell Joel Fitzgibbon that the time for talk is over and it’s time for action. Tell Joel Fitzgibbon, the NSW Minerals Council and the CFMEU Hunter Valley union bosses that Coal LSL like all government bodies must demonstrate the highest standards of integrity, to protect workers’ interests, to behave with common sense and transparency. Workers deserve integrity and support.

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Inland Rail is off track

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Yesterday I attended a hearing into the Inland Rail project. The massively expensive project will see up to 40 heavy freight trains a day travel through southern Queensland to Acacia Ridge. (20 into Brisbane and 20 out)

Inland Rail uses passenger lines through south west Brisbane that local residents were promised would never be upgraded to heavy freight. That promise, by Labor Premier Beattie has now been broken by Premier Palaszczuk.

It is telling that neither Premier Palaszczuk nor any of her administration had the courage to front the inquiry to respond to the criticism of the route her Government is promoting.

The Mayor of Logan City Darren Power testified that within 20 years more than 50,000 residents would live with 1km of the train line, putting up with noise and vibration from 1.8km long heavy freight trains 24 hours a day.

The current plan is to terminate the line at Acacia Ridge, and not upgrade the rail link to Brisbane Port until 2040. This stupid idea will put hundreds of additional A double heavy freight trucks and related traffic onto local roads that can’t handle the traffic they have now.

Inland Rail’s preferred alignment also goes across the Condamine floodplain near Millmerran. Building a 2m railway embankment across a major floodplain is a really bad idea. The small culverts being built into the embankment will quickly block during heavy rain and flood out thousands of local residents and businesses.

The much better route through Warwick, along mostly existing freight rail lines was not seriously considered by the ARTC, this is a poor decision.

The budget for Inland Rail now stands at $20 billion and will go much higher. At this cost Inland Rail will never pay for itself. Our investigations into this and listening are going to continue. The more I hear, the more concerned I am about this project.

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Red Tape Killling Businesses

One Nation always aims to protect honest workers, protect small businesses and simplify our Industrial Relations (IR) system. The current IR reforms need a lot of work to achieve that.

Transcript

[Marcus Paul]

G’day, Malcolm.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Good morning, Marcus, how are you?

[Marcus Paul]

I’m okay. I’m just having a little chuckle at the wankfest going on in the United States at the moment. I get that it’s a momentous occasion. I understand every time a President’s inaugurated that they have to get celebrities up there to sing songs and carry on. But for God’s sake, enough’s enough, surely.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yeah, I’ve travelled through all 50 American States. I’ve lived there for five years. I’ve studied at one of the top universities over there and I’ve worked over there in eight different states. And I love Americans. They’re absolutely fabulous people, but they’re different. You know, in many ways they look like us. They dress like us. They have similar habits, they’re casual and they’re formal like us, they love us. But mate, they just go over the top when it comes to celebrating things. it’s just for Australians, it’s too much.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, you’d think that there’s no issue with COVID-19. You’d think that America is all this, there’s no social inequality. You think that there’s no civil unrest. It’s all, I don’t know, look, I’m seeing right now the presidential motorcade with the military escorting Joe Biden back to the White House, the bloke looks like he needs a good lie down.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yeah, it’s a contradiction in America. Wherever I went you can see contradiction. And, you can get a very energetic country like America but there are so many, so many inequalities as well. But there’s one thing that’s very strong in Americans and that’s the love of their country and their passion for freedom. And so, I think there’ll be a lot of Americans holding their breath right now.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, mate. Now you’re on the road driving down the New South Wales coast, you’re around Singleton, are you?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yes, and what a beautiful day it is. I used to live in Singleton, worked here several times but it’s a glorious day and blue sky. We just driven up the Valley from Singleton. We’re now in Musswelbrook and we went past Bayswater and Liddell Power Station. It’s just absolutely beautiful.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah, nice, now the federal government’s so-called industrial relations reforms, you’ve had a fair bit to say about that ahead of Senate estimates hearings in March.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, they’re going to try and bring in the legislation into the Senate fairly soon, it’s an inquiry at the moment but we’ve had a good look at it and we still got a lot more work to do on it. But Marcus, you know, our aims are always to protect honest workers, to protect small business. And, in this case, to restore productive capacity. And you know, the government is really just playing at this, it’s not addressing energy, it’s not addressing tax, it’s not addressing infrastructure, it’s not addressing over regulation. It’s still making life hard for people. It’s not a real reform at all, it’s just tinkering to look after his mates and the overriding thing with this so-called industrial relations reform, it’s not reform, it’s tinkering with the deck chairs on the Titanic is that their aim seems to be to not upset anyone and to try and please everyone. And whenever you do that, Marcus, you’re coming out of fear.

[Marcus Paul]

Yes.

[Malcolm Roberts]

And so they’re afraid. And that means the country will suffer. These regulations, they don’t simplify and small business badly needs that. The key aspect of this supposed reform from the Prime Minister is to get jobs, mate.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Roberts]

It won’t get any jobs. It’s just gonna make things more complex. There are some positives in there but there are overwhelmingly a lot of negatives. We’re just going to have to do a lot of work on this.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, now, obviously, on this trip down the coast you’ve been catching up with people who may have reached out to you, made contact, what are you hearing on the ground?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, first of all, I’ve got to say how beautiful the country is on the coast coming south down through New South Wales. It’s just green, it’s glorious. And people, I’ve heard from small business, for example, a guy who run, well, I won’t tell you his business because it’s a boutique business and I don’t want anyone to come back on him but he was really talking about how difficult life is under state, federal and local government. Because they’re making things complex.

[Marcus Paul]

Absolutely, could you imagine all that bloody red tape a business owner has to go through these days? It’s just, it’s almost —

[Malcolm Roberts]

But, Marcus, he was telling me things like if you get a permit from the state government to do something and then by the time you’ve finished dealing with regulations for the local government, the state government permits have expired and you’ve got to get it again. And that means more fees. And he was talking about 20, $30,000, I think, 50, $45,000 in one case, just to get consultants in to do the work for the local government. You can’t afford that.

[Marcus Paul]

No.

[Malcolm Roberts]

But one good piece of news. We visited a workshop here in Philly, a large workshop here, well, in Rutherford which is near Maitland. And they’re telling us, they do a lot of work for agriculture and mining machinery and they’re telling us that the price of coal has gone up quite a bit and they’re hiring again which is good for the Valley. And it’s really good for the whole Hunter Valley and Newcastle because most people don’t realise this but for every job in the coal mine there are six other jobs depending upon those jobs. And so the price of coal and the use of coal is extremely important to everyone in New South Wales.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, look, you know, you’ve got a bloke up there in the Hunter who is making a fair bit of noise. I’m sure he’s scaring the pants off of Joel Fitzgibbon but, I don’t know, if things are looking okay or a little better up there in the Hunter maybe Joel might hold on a little bit.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, the problem with Joel is his party. His party won’t let him do things. His party has got their foot on the throat of the coal industry and they’re determined to kill the coal industry. I mean, some of the senior people in the labour party have admitted that and said that is what they want to do. And it’s insane. One of the things I did coming down the New South Wales coast, I’m doing a bit of research in southern New South Wales in the next couple of days and I stopped in Port Macquarie and worked for a day and a half with an absolutely astounding Scientist there who’s been going through the Bureau of Meteorology records and mate, the records are just so shoddy and he’s done advanced statistical analysis. Once he’s removed all the the deliberate movements or adjustments. And there’s no warming at all going on. So, this whole thing about coal is just a beat up.

[Marcus Paul]

Yep, all right. Now, well, just on coal, of course, the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, he’s had a lot to say. Oh, by the way, when you visit these places, do you don on your high vis shirt and you untuck the top of the collar just to show a little bit of chest hair, look all macho like you’re in the moment? And do you have your professional photographer tailing your every move for a photo opp, Malcolm? I’m just wondering.

[Malcolm Roberts]

No, that’s not me. What I’m doing is I’m driving by myself. This morning I’ve got some of my, one of my staff with me but I’ve been driving down the coast on my own. I make all my own arrangements. Take my own notes, I just listen to people because you can’t listen to people through others. You’ve got to listen by firsthand, direct.

[Marcus Paul]

Fair enough.

[Malcolm Roberts]

So, I don’t go for all that crap.

[Marcus Paul]

Well said. All right, mate, listen, we’ve got a listener Gail Thornton who follows the programme. We want you to say hello. Can you just do me a favour, say, good day, Gail. Hope you’re having a wonderful morning. Just say that for me.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Good day, Gail, hope you’re having a great morning.

[Marcus Paul]

See, Gail says on our Facebook page and I’ll have to tell you, you got a little bit of hate on our social media. Mind you, I get a lot of hate on my social media as well. That’s just what it’s all about. But your posts, when we re-share things that you know you and I have a chat about a certain issue, it’s one of the, this is what I don’t get, this is the hypocrisy with it all and on this programme, we will speak to anybody, labour, liberal, callithumpian, you know, we have Pauline, yourself and also Mark Latham. So, we listen to all sorts, we try to as much as we can. We would love to have the Prime Minister or the Premier on here, but they don’t even know we exist or they probably know we exist but their media people don’t want them to come on because they’re probably upset that I’ll- first question to the Premier would be, when are you going to resign? And the second question to the Prime Minister would be, do you take any responsibility for robo-debt? And what about the thousands of people that have possibly taken their lives? So, that’s why they don’t come on. But your stuff that we talk about is well-received, you know, you gotta have your haters for those to really like you, Malcolm, but Gail says, there’s no way that we will listen to anything Malcolm Roberts has to say. So, I just wanted you to say good morning to Gail. She’s one of your biggest fans, I think.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, tell her that I’ll be very happy to meet her. And I look forward to her giving me evidence that contradicts my arguments.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, that’s it. Good on you, mate. Always great to catch up, drive safely. You can’t drop by and visit us, I hear.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Not this time, I was wanting to do that and I’ve got two outstanding retired people in Sydney that I want to meet because they’re both very, very good on water. And that’s a critical issue for us but I was hoping to drop in. But if I go anywhere near Sydney, then, mate, I’ve got to lock up in quarantine in Brisbane when I go back. So, even if I just don’t get out of the car. I’ve just got to lock up. So, I’m going to drive through Mudgee and then that way down through Bathurst and then to Canberra that way, so it’s an extra drive but, hey, that’s the way it has to do.

[Marcus Paul]

Ah, look, we’re broadcasting out into those regions right now and it’s pretty good out there as well. You reckon it’s green on the coast. You should see it inland. It’s just gorgeous around 2MG Mudgee area and out to Bathurst to our station 2BS and out to Orange . I love it out there, mate. Look after yourself.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Thanks Marcus. We’ve got to look after this country and stop the wombats ruining it, the wombats in Canberra.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, mate, bye-bye. Malcolm Roberts, Marcus Paul in the morning.

/by

Big Tech Dictatorship

I had a great first conversation back for the New Year with Marcus Paul. we spoke about Brisbane’s snap lockdown, big tech censoring conservatives and councils sneakily using COVID as an excuse to boycott Australia Day.

Transcript

[Marcus] All right, welcome back. 22 minutes to eight. That is of course, New South Wales Daylight Saving Time. Time to catch up with One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts. Happy New Year, Malcolm.

[Malcolm] Happy New year to you Marcus. And thank you very much.

[Marcus] You’re welcome. Did you get a break at all?

[Malcolm] I took some time off between Christmas day and New Year’s day.

[Marcus] Good on you.

[Malcolm] How about you?

[Marcus] I had a couple of weeks off, which was nice. Caught up with family as much as I could. And then Annastacia closed the border on me again and I couldn’t get up to see dad on the Gold Coast.

[Malcolm] Ain’t that disgraceful? Just capricious the way that woman works on this, just conditioning people to accept control. That’s all it is. It’s just nonsense.

[Marcus] Donald Trump. I’m looking forward to my wine, so it’s on its way apparently.

[Malcolm] Yes, I ordered it straight after the sixth. So it should be there pretty soon. It was recommended to me by Vic Pennisi, the Southern Downs mayor in Warwick. I don’t drink wine. I don’t drink spirits. The stiffest thing I have is light beer but my wife really enjoyed it. So I hope you enjoy it.

[Marcus] Thank you. Thank you. It was a bit of fun. Banning Trump from Twitter and other social media platforms. I mean, Twitter has benefited enormously from Trump using the platform during his presidency. Shares of Apple, Amazon, and Alphabet, the parent company of Google all shed more than 2% on Monday. They will suffer according to you by this ban.

[Malcolm] Yes, I’m married to an American. I’ve travelled through all 50 states of America. I’ve lived and worked there and studied there and I’ve worked in eight states. I get to know them pretty well. Americans don’t like this kind of behaviour from someone acting capriciously. As you said, it’s quite right. Twitter has benefited enormously from Trump and they didn’t seem to be bothered with him over the last four years and they don’t seem to be bothered with supporting Venezuela’s dictatorship, Iran’s dictatorship and China’s Communist Party. Now that we’ve got a Democrat coming into the White House, they seem suddenly to be concerned about Donald Trump.

[Marcus] I mean, they have protections as an open platform, both Twitter and Facebook, for instance. They’re not subjected to the same laws and rules as traditional media as they claim not to be publishers, but deleting Trump’s whole account of tweets is kind of acting as a publisher, is it not?

[Malcolm] You’re absolutely correct, Marcus. It’s akin to book burning. That’s what it really is. It’s just like burning books. As a publisher, they need to be accountable to the same laws that govern publishers. And that’s why Trump was coming after them to make sure they are publishers. But yeah, they’re acting capriciously just like the Queensland premier. We’ve now heard that there’s interference with the Ugandan Facebook and Twitter account holders ahead of the election today. Ugandan accounts have been linked to the incumbent president. They’d been removed from Facebook. Social media platforms are taking sides in an election by removing these accounts. It’s not the business of social media to decide who is good or bad. Now, some people, Marcus, might say, well, it’s a free enterprise society. You can join Twitter. They can kick you off, whatever. If you make a contract with Twitter to use them, then they don’t cut you off just before an election, which has been the threat from Twitter and Facebook for quite some time that they would cut candidates or even parties off their services just before an election at the last minute when they can’t do anything about it. And that’s exactly what’s happening in Uganda. And it’s exactly what’s happening in America.

[Marcus] Well look, some people say, well, the Murdoch Media seem to favour certain parties. And so why shouldn’t social media giants be able to do the same thing?

[Malcolm] That’s a very good argument. However, as I just said, if you’re gonna take my material, if you as a social media platform are gonna take my material for four or five or 10 years and then suddenly cut me off before an election, that’s not on. Now with Murdoch, I’ve got a choice. We know that he has favoured the Labor Party at times. We came out very strongly in favour of Rudd. I think he came out strongly in favour of Whitlam. And I know that he’s also favoured the Liberal Party at times, but I’ve got a choice. I don’t have to buy The Australian newspaper. I don’t have to watch his television stations. And that’s my choice if I do that. He can switch, like Murdoch’s Fox News in America when they started becoming biassed, just like CNN over the US Election. Reportedly the number of subscriptions at Fox News had plummeted by 50%. So they’re now starting to think about, because Americans had said, we’ve had enough of this bias. So Marcus, I think if you’re paying for a service, you can choose what you want to do. But if I’ve got an established relationship with someone, then they shouldn’t cut me off just before an election because I’m a candidate.

[Marcus] Australia Day not too far away, Malcolm. Some councils seem to be cancelling celebrations, refusing to celebrate the national day saying they are in solidarity with indigenous campaigners. It almost appears like they’re, if you like, blaming or hiding behind COVID 19 to justify the cancellation.

[Malcolm] Yes, you’re right. Some councils are refusing to celebrate the national day saying they’re in solidarity with indigenous campaigners, which makes me wonder because there are many Aboriginals who openly support Australia Day including some prominent spokespeople, male and female from their Aboriginal community. So I don’t know where they’re getting that from. And secondly, somehow as you said, refusing to celebrate and blaming COVID. Greatest Sydney councils including Liverpool and North Sydney, Parramatta and Canterbury Bankstown, are still going to have normal citizenship ceremonies but have cancelled the large gatherings because of COVID. So there’s some genuine concern in there as well, but it’s on Australia Day. We all should come together especially after this tumultuous year we’ve had in 2020, Marcus.

[Marcus] Absolutely. I mean, we’ve been through enough. If we are in this together, why can’t we celebrate together? I mean the division and some of the notoriety of that same, so negative, really isn’t needed at this time. And I do get a little frustrated that every year as it rolls around December, I beg your pardon, January 26, becomes a poster, if you like, for people that like to call it invasion day, et cetera. I don’t think we have the stomach for this year to be honest.

[Malcolm] No, I agree with you mate. It’s usually a beat up from Richard Di Natale when he was in the Senate. He was the one who pushed it. I don’t know who’s pushing it now. I think it’s just become some martyrs within various councils just wanting to make their say. But I agree with you. We need to come united in this country.

[Marcus] Now, finally, there’s another arbitrary lockdown, we know in Brisbane. There are some quite serious concerns of this United Kingdom strain of COVID 19 which is a little more dangerous than the previous ones for goodness sake. But if individual states are paying for jobkeeper, then you say, you bet there will be different decisions. I mean they’re drastic and abrupt closures. I don’t know, sometimes they are needed, but I mean at the end of the day, all it’s doing is wrecking the economy and ruining plans that people have for weddings and other major events in their lives.

[Malcolm] You’re absolutely right, Marcus. And what is really important here, is that the World Health Organisation which is admittedly corrupt, dishonest and incompetent, but even it, even it says that lockdowns are last resort and lockdowns are used to get control of a virus in the early stages. This basically says that Annastacia Palaszczuk in Queensland is admitting she doesn’t have control of the virus. And that’s a significant thing because what we’re doing in this country is we’re not managing the virus. The virus is managing us. One case pops up, one positive test pops up in Brisbane and we lock down a city of one and a half to 2 million people in greater Brisbane? And what happened was that, you hit the nail on the head because we have got to have the economy healthy because a healthy economy is the only way you’re gonna get future health, mental health and physical health. So we have had an insane debate in this country. Should we look after the health or the economy? The answer is you do both. And the leading countries in the world, Taiwan in particular is doing both because you have to protect people’s health but you have to protect the economy to maintain future health, mental and physical. And so we have got a stupid debate going on in this country. It’s not economy or health. It’s both. And that’s how you protect health. The premier was giggling on radio on Monday. I heard her. They were talking about the traffic jams of people flooding out of Brisbane and the premier after destroying small business and destroying families activities over the weekend laughed when she said, that the Gold Coast had great occupancy. There were traffic jams of people leaving Brisbane. I mean, what’s that gonna do for spreading the virus? If such a thing was the root cause of what she was doing. It’s insane.

[Marcus] Absolutely. I agree. I mean, COVID will continue its presence. We need more testing, rigorous quarantining and isolation of the sick and vulnerable. And we need to get back to work as well. The New South Wales Premier Gladys Berejiklian, you say, seems to be in the most measured and pragmatic in response to the complex challenge of managing this pandemic.

[Malcolm] I said that. I don’t have much time for the New South Wales LNP government but I think when it comes to managing COVID, they’ve done the best. But they’ve still done a poor job by world standards. Let’s not kid ourselves. Australia has had over 900 deaths from COVID. And what we’ve got in the country, there’s 25 million people. Taiwan has got 24 million people on a densely populated Island. Sometimes the population density is a thousand times what we’ve got here in Brisbane, for example, and they’ve had earlier introduction of the virus, they’ve had longer with it. They’ve got much more inter-connection with the communist, China, where the virus started and wove in. They’ve had seven deaths. Seven deaths. And what they’ve done is they’ve focused, exactly what we were talking about a minute ago. They’ve focused on the economy and health. And what they’ve got is they’ve got a government that is worthy of trust. I’ve talked to people from Taiwan. They’ve told me that. The government’s not perfect but at least it involves people. It presents data. These people in New South Wales even, and even I’ve said it’s the best, they’re not presenting the data to underpin their plans. And so what we’ve got Marcus, is we’ve got plans all over the country that are completely different. I like the idea of that in the sense that it maintains state sovereignty but it shows me when there’s so much diverse plans that no one’s got the data backing up the plans and people deserve to have that data to know that their leaders are basing those decisions on data.

[Marcus] All right, Malcolm. Great to catch up. We’ll talk again next week. Appreciate it.

[Malcolm] See you Marcus.

[Marcus] One Nation’s Malcolm Roberts. Marcus Paul In The Morning

/by

Overseas defence personnel in Australia

,

There has been many comments recently about a bill that people were concerned about which they claimed would allow foreign troops and police to enter Australia and act against our interests.

This is untrue.

The bill simply gives foreign troops and police who are invited into our country to help in emergencies an exemption of liability if they are acting in good faith while performing their duties. It’s the same exemption that our defence force and police are given in emergencies.

One Nation would clearly not have anything to do with allowing foreign troops or police into Australia to act against the interest of its people.

The bill was the “Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force response to Emergencies) Bill 2020”.

As a way of explanation, Clause 123AA:

A protected person (see subsection (3)) is not subject to any liability (whether civil or criminal) in respect of anything the protected person does or omits to do, in good faith, in the performance or purported performance of the protected person’s duties,…. A protected person is defined under 123AA :

  1. Each of the following is a protected person:

(a) a member of the Defence Force;

(b) an APS employee in the Department;

(c) a person authorised under subsection (4) to perform duties in respect of the provision of assistance mentioned in subsection (1).

Transcript

Hi, I’m Senator Malcolm Roberts, and I’m in Thursday Island just above the tip of Cape York. And we’re here for a Senate inquiry, but I also want to respond now to people who’ve contacted our office about something that concerns them. It’s another internet rumour that’s not true.

They’re asking questions about us, or the parliament or the government authorising foreign defence forces to come onto this country and be armed and to control the people, that’s nonsense.

The bill that was passed recently is merely to ensure that overseas volunteers who come here to help us in times of natural disaster have the same rights and protections as Australian soldiers and Australian volunteers, because they’re covered by insurance, foreigners are not, until now.

So it means that providing foreigners, whether they be armed, whether they be, they won’t be armed forces, but whether they be defence forces or police forces or volunteers, will be covered. People like the three pilots who died in the plane crash last year fighting the fires with a water bomber.

Volunteers, defence, police, and so on. They must be acting in good faith. If they’re not acting in good faith, or they do something deliberately harmful to people, then they lose that protection, and they’re vulnerable.

So all that’s happened is that the government is protecting the foreign volunteers to make sure that we keep getting foreign volunteers to come here and help us with their particular skills in terms of natural disasters.

That’s all it is. We checked it thoroughly, and it’s here for our protection.

/by

Cashless Debit Card Explanation

,

The Cashless Debit Card is controversial. Last week One Nation voted to extend the trial of the system. Controversial because activists, Labor and the Greens are ignoring the facts and confusing the public with mistruths.

Firstly, it’s not a cashless program. Recipients still have between 20% and 50% in cash. Secondly, this is a program that was requested from communities to help protect children and families. This system stops people from using their entire taxpayer funded welfare payments on alcohol, gambling, drugs and cigarettes.

Reports from those on the system and their communities are already claiming that there are less hungry children and less violence and crime. This program protects children and families and taxpayer welfare payments. There are no plans to extend this program to the pension. This is a scare campaign by the left. And we wouldn’t support it anyway.

Transcript

Hi, I’m Senator Malcolm Roberts, and I’m in Parliament House, Canberra. And I want to discuss the cashless debit card or it’s actually the less-cash debit card because it still comes with cash. Why are we doing it? And why do we support the government’s trial? Because it’s all about kids and families, protecting kids and families.

Making sure that kids get a belly full of food and it’s not just consumed, the money is not just wasted on alcohol and booze from their parents. So it’s about the future of our country because kids learn better at school. They develop better physically when they’ve got full bellies and not starving. It’s about kids and families.

Making sure that the money from taxpayers goes to people who deserve the welfare. So that leads me to my second point. And that, that as a Senator, I have responsibility not just to the people who need welfare and support, but to the people who pay for the welfare and the support, the taxpayer. So we have to make sure that the taxpayer’s money provides value for the taxpayer.

‘Cause it’s a lot of money for taxpayers, who have worked hard to get that money and to see it wasted on booze and drugs and gambling and cigarettes, is just not on. The third thing is that, I hinted to it earlier. It’s a less-cash card, it’s not a cash-less card. There’s cash still involved, the proportion of cash varies from 20% through to 50%, depending upon the community.

This is a trial and they’re trialling many different parameters. And that means that as people learn from the trial, and the trial has now been going for a few years. As people learn, they tweak the trial because they learn from their mistakes and let’s remove the mistakes, and they see other opportunities. And so they wanna make sure that people benefit from that.

And remember, the less-cash card came out of requests from communities where there was massive abuse of kids and families. Waste of money, tearing up the communities. Those communities approached government and wanted help. Liberal National Party Government, and the Labour Party Government under Gillard.

So this is about protecting our future, and protecting taxpayers, and above all, protecting kids. So it is a difficult issue, an emotional issue. It’s been distorted by various people using lots of lies and slang, but it is about protecting kids, protecting families, and protecting taxpayers, and making sure that Australia gets value for its money.

/by

Cashless Debit Card – 2SM with Marcus Paul

,

Transcript

And now on Marcus Paul in the Morning, Senator Malcolm Roberts.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, welcome back. At 19 to eight, 19 to seven in Queensland. Malcolm, good morning!

[Malcolm Roberts]

Good morning, Marcus. How are you?

[Marcus Paul]

No bad at all, not bad. How are things in Canberra?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Foggy.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Because we didn’t get much sleep last night, we debated the cash ban, the cashless debit card until gee, I don’t know, I guess 12:30, something like that.

[Marcus Paul]

And you still didn’t come up with the right result?

[Malcolm Roberts]

No, we did, mate, we did. We’ve gotta protect taxpayers as well as welfare recipients-

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah?

[Malcolm Roberts]

And vulnerable kids in in some of these communities.

[Marcus Paul]

True, true.

[Malcolm Roberts]

And then that’s, so I’ve got dual responsibility, and that’s what we did. We looked after the taxpayer-

[Marcus Paul]

I understand.

[Malcolm Roberts]

And people who are receiving welfare.

[Marcus Paul]

Are you not concerned like I am, Malcolm, that this will give a green light to the government in the future to privatise our welfare system?

[Malcolm Roberts]

No, I’m not concerned about privatising welfare. I don’t think that’ll happen. It’s just too-

[Marcus Paul]

Well, this is exactly, what is this?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Too great a responsibility.

[Marcus Paul]

But hang on, Malcolm. This is exactly what is happening. In the guard-

[Malcolm Roberts]

No, it’s not.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, of course it is, Indue, who do you think Indue was operated by?

[Malcolm Roberts]

That’s the people operating the actual transfer of the cash, but the welfare system is still under the federal government.

[Marcus Paul]

Yes, but we’ve outsourced it to, oh, I dunno, to a mob that apparently is linked to the Liberal Party and donate to the Liberal Party. And we’ve got, what, when does it, since when does the federal government take advice from a mining magnate?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Now, now you’re onto something. That’s, there are questions we’re going to be asking because I’m not at all happy about that arrangement. We haven’t seen that, that hasn’t been transparent, mate, and I think you’ve got a very good question there. But this is a trial and as trials go, we learn things and then it becomes more and more flexible, so we’ve gotta change the trial in certain ways as we learn and that’s been done, and I think it’s been done in a very responsible way. But yeah, the question’s about who runs it, that is it.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah, all right, but don’t you think, Malcolm, that it’s, you know it’s painting a lot of people with the same brush. I mean, we’ve been very critical of the government in relation to the Brereton Report and essentially just saying that, oh, well, you know, and we’ve got the minister doubling down now over the last 24, 48 hours on alleged atrocities in Afghanistan.

And you know, they’re talking about pulling meritorious citations from the 3,000 people who served, even though only a fraction of them, not even at a tiny minute percentage, have been alleged of these atrocities. And again, they’re all being branded with the same brush. Not everybody who’s on welfare, even in these regions where it’s being trialled, Sudener and otherwise, not everybody on these welfare cards drinks, takes drugs, or spends money on gambling.

What happens if they wanna go to the local markets? What happens if they need to get cash out to, I dunno, buy something at the corner store because they won’t take the Indue card?

[Malcolm Roberts]

These are good questions, and that’s what the purpose of the trial is, to understand how to resolve that. But you know, there are various proportions of cash in some of the trials, it’s 50:50 cash and credit and card. In others, it’s 80:20, 20% cash. But we have to remember that the future of Australia is literally at stake here because we’re having kids grow up with no food. How can they be educated? How can they survive? How can they grow into in the future leaders of our country, future leaders of our communities-

[Marcus Paul]

Fair enough.

[Malcolm Roberts]

With that experience? This is really about a very humanitarian approach, anyway.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah, I get that and look, I’m not, I don’t, I don’t have an issue or a problem with the thought behind it. Of course, we need to try and protect children. We need to ensure they’re receiving everything they need to get the best start in life and to live up to their potential. I worry that it’s just a one size fits all approach and that some people who genuinely, and I’ve received correspondence from many people who are on this card, saying that, you know, it’s unfair.

I feel like a criminal and, you know, people look at me when I produce this card at the local shopping centre, and I can’t, you know, anyway. But I guess that’s discussions for another time because it’s now been extended for two years and the trials will continue. Am I right in saying that perhaps they’re looking at doing it in the Hunter in the Newcastle region?

[Malcolm Roberts]

I don’t know where they’re looking at doing it. It was extended into Cape York and other parts of the territory there. They’re making changes to some of the ways of operating, the ways and distributing it.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah, true.

[Malcolm Roberts]

So, you know, it comes out in the trial markets. Now, I’ll give the government, remember that some of this was implemented by the Rudd, Gillard government, some of it was foreshadowed by the Howard government. But the most important thing I think of all to remember is that these were done as a request to help income management, to protect kids, to protect families, especially in the territory and in parts of Queensland.

So, you know, and we all have a responsibility to make sure that the taxpayer’s money is used wisely and not used for, you know, booze and gambling and drugs.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, I think we all agree on that. All right, speaking of cash money, $10,000 cash ban is dead, dead, dead. That’s a big win.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yes, very big win. We moved that motion to remove that cash ban bill, the government’s cash ban bill, from the Senate legislation list. And you may remember that when that was introduced quietly, it was my office in particular that raised the hell about that.

And we got an alliance from right across the coal, the crossbench senators, and then we attacked the Labor Party on it, we went to Stephen Jones, the shadow minister for finance in the Labor Party, and still, the Labor Party passed it in the lower house along with the Liberals, a lot of things happened in parliament with Labor and Liberal working together.

And these things that are hurting, hurting people, everyday Australians, especially rural people who can’t get access to cash, mate, and especially all the people.

[Marcus Paul]

All right.

[Malcolm Roberts]

And so what happened was we actually got it sent to a committee in the upper, in the Senate, and then it came out of the committee, there were a whole list of serious problems about it, but the committee still, because it was dominated by Labor and Liberals, still recommended passing the bill. But we created such a fuss that it actually became an embarrassment and the government, I think, was relieved to have us push it off.

[Marcus Paul]

Well, good because cash is legal tender and it should never be refused by merchants. But Woolworths have announced some stores will no longer accept cash. I mean, this war on cash being used in our country needs to stop, Malcolm.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yes, you’re absolutely right. And that’s what we’ve been pointing out. We’ve got a fabulous response to the petition we started on our Facebook page, Marcus. And it’s very important to understand that the cash ban bill was binned as a result of a very, very strong wave of of public support for getting rid of that cash ban.

[Marcus Paul]

Yes, all right, the tensions with China. Is it just a trade spat? Or is there more to this, do you think?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Much more to it, and it really points to our governance in this country under both Labor and Liberal and the Nationals. Because China is a totalitarian communist party that’s leading that country and they’re just bullies. And bullies go for the weak link. And so, we must stand up to it, but why are we considered weak?

When if you look at China, we export our iron ore and coal to China so that they can make wind turbines and solar panels. They come back to Australia, they export wind turbines and solar panels to our country. We then subsidise the construction of solar generators and wind turbines, and we subsidise that and that drives up our electricity prices.

So we end up exporting jobs to the Chinese, because a lot of the construction companies on the unreliables, on the alternatives to coal-fired power stations, that was the solar and the wind, they’re Chinese-owned. So the Chinese are making profits out of our raw materials and they’re destroying, they’re not destroying, but our government, state and federal, are destroying our electricity sector.

And Marcus, the fundamental thing with electric, with manufacturing these days, and we want a recovery from COVID, and go beyond that is electricity prices. Electricity prices are greater in the bigger cost in most manufacturing than Labor. So what we’re doing is we’re destroying our manufacturing sector and some of our agricultural sector and we’re subsidising the Chinese to do it. I mean, but that’s, the Chinese are not doing anything wrong there, we’re the bunnies-

[Marcus Paul]

Well, we’re the ones who have allowed it, yes.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, that’s right, and what the Chinese can see is that they have signed a Paris agreement commitment that says they will do nothing, and they can see us. They can see us signing over our sovereignty to the UN in so many areas now since 1975, that’s 45 years, half a century. And they’re thinking these people, the Australians, contradict their own values. They destroy their own sovereignty. What is the matter with these people?

They’re vulnerable, they’re weak. And our governments under Labor, Liberal, and Nationals have been absolutely pathetic now for around 45 years. Ever since we signed that stupid Lima Declaration that by Whitlam’s Labor government in 1975 and it was ratified the following year by Fraser’s Liberal-National government. I mean, they’re selling out our country and the Chinese can see that, and they can see we’re weak and gutless, and they just running over the top of us. They think that they can bend us.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, well, speaking of maybe the Chinese running over the top of us, as you’ve put it, Keswick Island, just off the coast of-

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yes.

[Marcus Paul]

We’ve got the Queensland government signing a lease with China Bloom until 2096 for 117 hectares. They wanna build a tourist resort to accommodate some 3,000 people. And it would appear that locals are not involved in this process. They’re not allowed to access their beach, their jetty has gone. People who were renting there have been turfed off the island with just given 48 hours to leave. Is this Australia or where are we?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Exactly, this should be Australia, but it’s not under the Queensland Labor government and under the federal Liberal-National government. And the important thing here to remember is that some of these places on Keswick Island are public places, public spaces, and what the Chinese are doing, the Chinese owners are denying Australians access to those public spaces, that is wrong. And we’re gonna raise hell about this.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah, well, I’ve seen the stories and there’ve been some good reports on this. I can’t believe that we allow ownership by overseas interests to be able to, isn’t a lot of this land national park?

[Malcolm Roberts]

Yes, that’s correct. And they denying people access to that. You know that, Pauline and I raised an amendment in a bill that improves foreign investment review board control.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Roberts]

We raised the need to put tighter controls on things in a national interest, the national interest test.

[Marcus Paul]

That’s right.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Being one of the tests for giving others, giving foreigners control over some of our assets. And that was turned down, pulling over the only ones, Labor, Liberal, Centre Alliance, Greens, National Party all voted against putting that national interest as a test for firms. The other thing, Marcus, is that they even rejected our amendment to have a register of foreign ownership of water.

[Marcus Paul]

Oh, well, yes, we’ve gone through that in New South Wales with the shooters and fishers, I mean, poor Helen Dalton, our warrior, water warrior, who’s a frequent caller on this program’s been trying to get a fully transparent water register up in New South Wales for God knows how long, but the, you know the Nationals, who are supposed to be looking after people in the bush, don’t want a bar of it, including Melinda Pavey, the water minister.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Well, it seems to me the Nationals are looking after farmers in the northern parts of New South Wales. And there’s unlimited floodplain harvesting. And you know, that needs to be regulated.

In Queensland, it is regulated, and Cubbie Station, even though it’s been vilified, has done an absolutely marvellous job, highly, highly responsible, the way it does it. But northern New South Wales, they’re just tearing the guts out of the water. And that’s, you know, what happens, Marcus, is that the northern basin, the Murray-Darling Basin, is quite different from the southern.

[Marcus Paul]

Yeah, of course.

[Malcolm Roberts]

And the southerners pay when the north can’t deliver water because the northern areas are intermittent water providers. And so, the southerners always end up paying. But the other thing that’s happening is the South Australians are basically telling lies about what’s happened to water in their state.

They have destroyed their environment in the Coorong through their own stupid policies, and they’re expecting people in New South Wales, Queensland, and Victoria to pay the price. And then when the water doesn’t come down from the floodplain harvesting in northern New South Wales, the southerners in southern New South Wales and northern Victoria, they’re paying, they’re paying dearly. Very, very serious issue.

[Marcus Paul]

All right, Malcolm, always good to chat back. We’ll catch up again next week.

[Malcolm Roberts]

Have a good weekend. Thanks Marcus.

[Marcus Paul]

Thank you and all of this, One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts on the programme. Okay, four and a half minutes away from eight o’clock news on the way. Marie, are you there?

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