I asked questions of two Army generals as to the viability of military EVs in the field. They spoke of the challenges of recharging in the field, considering factors such as solar charging and the use of hybrid vehicles.
I was told that the technology was not there yet but the hope was that technology would have matured by 2030-35 when the fleet of vehicles may be transformed to EV status and technological problems be overcome.
Transcript
Chair: Senator Roberts?
Senator Roberts: My questions are to do with the Army’s electric vehicles. Since the publicly released information of electric vehicle conversion of the Australian designed and built Bushmaster, has the Australian Army progressed to test the operational feasibility of other Australian electric military vehicles in the field? I understand from Minister Conroy, who gave us a crossbencher briefing, that this is at concept stage at the moment, nothing more.
Lt Gen. Stuart: I’ll begin, and then I’ll hand to my colleague Major General Vagg for any further comments. The concept demonstrator that you referred to was part of our power and energy work, which involves some studies to understand how we can use alternative sources of fuel (1) to ensure an operational capability and (2) to reduce the logistic footprint that is created by bulk fuel. There are a couple of important points to note. Firstly, we were able to produce an electric Bushmaster, but that was to really test the parameters of power generation and how that work would translate into the design of the vehicle and to really test the
art of the possible.
Of course, the operating environment would probably require us to have a hybrid approach, similar to a hybrid passenger vehicle, with both solar panels and also the fuel that would be required. So it is on a path of development to determine how we can continue to operate vehicles and reduce the logistics footprint and, obviously, the output of those vehicles.
Senator Roberts: What progress has been made? What stage are you at right now?
Major Gen. Vagg: As the chief has alluded to, we produced the capability demonstrator with Thales. One of the limitations is power generation and storage and the distribution — which I think you’d appreciate —
Senator Roberts: Easy to understand that.
Major Gen. Vagg: for operational use. We’ve got a number of studies underway to look at power generation and electrification of various sizes of wheeled and tracked vehicles. Those studies are indicating that the technology won’t be in a mature state until about 2030. We have plans from 2035 onwards to look at how we’ll transition the broader Army fleet as we move across.
Senator Roberts: So the time frame is you’re hoping to put something into operation by 2030.
Major Gen. Vagg: That’s the time when the studies are indicating the technology will be mature enough so we can field it as an operational capability.
Senator Roberts: So at the moment there’s no real understanding based on anything concrete—it’s just studies at the moment. You haven’t got a plan or deadline or date.
Major Gen. Vagg: As I said, from about 2035 we’ve got plans to look at starting to convert Army’s fleets across to electric vehicles.
Senator Roberts: What are your findings on energy density? One of the advantages of hydrocarbon fuels like petrol and diesel and gas is that they have very high energy density—not as high as nuclear, but very high energy density. Sunlight is incredibly low.
Major Gen. Vagg: That’s a good observation. To inform some of that work, we’ve got trials with electric vehicles that are occurring this year. We have 40 electric vehicles—civilian—that are operating in the ACT. From 2024 we’ll look at a series of small, light commercial vehicles that will use hydrogen cells. We’ll use those capability demonstrators to inform further work and how we’ll look to operationalise that.
Senator Roberts: To what stage has the thinking gotten in terms of replacing the current diesel powered vehicles?
Major Gen. Vagg: Again, I go back to my first point. Looking at the levels of maturity for those technologies, we don’t expect that to mature to where we can deploy it as a legitimate operational capability until about 2030.
Senator Roberts: Is there any way in which our concrete operational plans assume electric vehicles, say, by 2035? Are we going to be reliant upon these things being developed?
Major Gen. Vagg: I don’t think we’d be reliant on them being developed, but that’s a goal where we’ll look to do that transition.
Senator Roberts: So it’s a goal, not a plan yet.
Lt Gen. Stuart: If I can describe the approach, there are a whole range of emerging technologies that we need to understand, and then we need to test their application to the set of tasks that we need to provide for the integrated force. In some cases, I expect, those will be successful; in other cases they may not be. What we want is to be informed and take advantage of the developments in technology as they’re developing. We work with both academia and industry to explore the art of the possible. We’re not making any presuppositions about exactly when, because we just don’t have the evidence or the data to support exactly where that technology may be. What we’re working on at the moment in the case of electrification is that we think, based on the advice we’ve received, that technology—noting your point about energy density and the requirement to operate vehicles in operational situations—is probably toward the end of this decade. That is our estimation based on the work we’ve done so far and the advice from experts that we’ve been working with.
Senator Roberts: Have you deployed the vehicle in the wet or in the north or in the desert or put it through any arduous tests, or is it still very much a concept?
Major Gen. Vagg: It’s still very much a concept.
Senator Roberts: What about battery charging? You mentioned that as one of your challenges. I think, from memory, on Friday afternoon the Minister for Defence Industry, Mr Conroy, said that you had some concepts for fast charging. Is that correct?
Lt Gen. Stuart: We’ll have to take that one on notice. As I say, as part of the power and energy work we’re doing, we’re looking at a whole range of things, which include both power generation and power storage—which includes battery technology.
Senator Roberts: What would power generation involve—what sort of concept?
Lt Gen. Stuart: Solar, hybrid engines—
Senator Roberts: Solar panels?
Lt Gen. Stuart: and those sorts of things.
Senator Roberts: Hybrid using hydrocarbon fuelled engines?
Lt Gen. Stuart: Yes.
Senator Roberts: You’re not far enough advanced, then, to discuss the recharging question for field operation?
Major Gen. Vagg: No. As I alluded to before, we’re still looking at how that technology matures. That’s one of the principal challenges that we need to overcome.
Senator Roberts: What’s your early gut feeling? Much of the science on this and the application of the science on these technologies is still hypothetical—wish.
Lt Gen. Stuart: I don’t think my gut feeling is particularly relevant. We’ll follow the science and what can be demonstrated and how that can be applied to the work that we are required to do. But we think it makes a
lot of sense to be understanding and to be working with experts on how we can apply new and emerging technologies to the business of Army in this instance.
Senator Roberts: I’m reassured now. Initially, I wondered if we were going to be dependent on something happening in the next few years, and I had visions of extension cords all across North Queensland and the Territory. That has put that to rest. Thank you very much.
Again,we appear to be living in monty python land. This will never happen, however what else can you expect from military leaders who have been completely politicised in Canberra.
When the shit hits the fan the true leaders will arise I hope.
God bless Australia
When it comes to separating the men from the boys. The them wot know, from the them with the dough, I have confidence in the real people, the Forces, to have things in hand, but to placate the bureaucraps are playing the nodding and smiling game. ‘When ignorance is bliss, ’tis folly to be wise’. Just carry on with the job and let the desk jockeys make noise.
Electric is sure being pushed, globally.
The safety is questionable and the disposal of the batteries is a major concern.
It’s disturbing that few appear to ‘have the balls’ to say… NO.
I agree. There was a lot of ‘umm’ ‘arrr’ and paper moving going on and not a lot of convincing. I think when they (ADF)were first told, they burst out laughing. Then realised government were serious, if you could call that serious. Definitely a Monty Puthon scene or Dad’s Army (both I’ll equipped to defend a nation)
Malcolm,
National defense is an important consideration for government.
This transcript appears to have been terminated rather abruptly.
Would you please supply the date of the hearing so I can check the full transcript.
Or advise where I may find the transcript (full directions requested)
Cheers,
Col
Technology available by 2030/35 ? Gee they have given themselves plenty of time to come up with technology haven’t they . I would have thought that an ELECTRIC car would charge ITSELF much the way a normal vehicle charges it’s battery . Seems the BS spinners are spinning overtime ! I suppose there’s money in charging stations isn’t there ! Pffff to much BS as usual !
Sorry Grant.
Your third sentence is either a poor attempt at humor or demonstrates a serious lack of scientific and technical knowledge.
Cheers,
Col
Thankyou Professor Shill , you would look less like a govt bum licker if you weren’t always FACT checking everything Malcolm post,s ! Hope he sends you nothing shill !
AMEN.
That ‘Col’ character is possibly the most persistent and deluded St Greta worshipping troll I’ve EVER encountered anywhere online. Dunno why he chooses to troll Malcolm Roberrt’s blog, where no-one’s interested in the nonsense he spews, nor willing to engage in his ridiculous, unscientific arguments.
And I’ve certainly read more than my fair share of ill-informed, ludicrous and utterly absurd commentary from brain-dead moronic green idiots, who support the ideology and the notion of totally destroying our whole civilization for the sake of a raft of LIES they’ve been hoodwinked to believe, about the NORMAL and EXPECTED behavior of the world’s constantly variable (or ‘changing’) climate.
These morons are not only dangerously deluded fools: THEY, (not the doom & gloom fairy-tale ‘climate crisis’ they believe we’re in the middle of), really ARE a serious threat to our freedom and whole way of life, even our very existence.
Just mind boggling that ANYONE outside of a psychiatric hospital, let alone so many can be so easily fooled to believe ANYTHING they’re told. 🤦♂️
Gents,
Good old sticks and stones.
Maybe you also should start fact checking Malcolm’s statements rather than offer abuse to those who do.
An open mind would be a good starting point.
Cheers,
Col
Gentlemen,
Alan and Grant.
I am confused, what exactly is a troll ?
Is a troll a person who politely, via directed questions, attempts to assist others through logical and rational thinking to understand their environment and challenges to that environment ?
OR
Is a troll one who attempts to counter an approach to reasoned thinking by irrationally denigrating and belittling such efforts ?
A polite reply would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Col
Here’s a not so polite reply F… Off SHILL !
Grant,
Still no answers to the questi8ons asked nor points raised ????
Enough said,
Cheers,
Col
Time conquers all. How cool I looked 1960 in my safari suit. What happened to them. Wot a larf now.
Here and now in books and on film are the rools of bygone days. A joke now but very serious at the time. Most now are gone and forgotten.
So I look forward to in 2035, then, at 95 y/o/a having a good larf at what’s said now.
Technology is advancing exponentially and when the need comes the answers will be provided. No doubt in my mind that much is here already but held back by the monied manipulators. Just as we were told twenty years ago that petrol wouldn’t work without lead and the ‘pinging’ would deafen us.
Most making the noise now will be gone or at least forgotten by 2035. But the doomsday sayers will continue popping up.
On that, I have heard that the big cereal makers are working on removing the ‘Pop’ out of rice bubbles and just keeping the ‘Snap’ and ‘Crackle’. ‘Pop’ being sexist and right now thats a no-no for some. Weirdo’s, that is, who are too vocal and get far too much attention.
Given that a number of parking stations are banning EVs because they weigh a lot more than conventional vehicles, it seems strange that the military would consider using them when the armour is already adding considerable weight. Further, tyres do not last as long (wear is 20-30% greater). And, yes, recharging… you can’t get a couple of jerry cans full of charge if you run out. Ye another ill-considered waste of the hard-earned taxpayer dollar.
Every year at the State Fairs (Here in Brisbane Queensland, The EKKA.) a new novelty would be there for the kids. I remember the slide whistle, the yo-yo, the foam plastic lizard on the wire lead, the flying bird on string, the click-clacks.
Grillions of each must have been sold and held every kids attention for well over a week after the show finished. Each and all an absolute necessity. The shame some must have felt not owning one.
And so, I predict, will much that great hoorah is made about today.
Still waiting for cloth made from peanut husks and coffins from almond shells. Where in the city are there kerbside posts where we can stop and plug in a phone carried in our car, when we want to make a call?
63.478% too young to remember any of those mentioned above and laugh at we ancients gullibility, just as our progeny will in 2035 laugh at ours of today.
Thanks again senator Roberts for showing the total stupidity of the new government.
maybe they should do their part and go electric and set an example for the rest of us.
hydrogen makes sense. not really adding to much to the weight of the vehical. when tesla did a pull off with his electric truck verses a gas guzzler. i did not realize back than that the electric truck potentially out weighed the gas truck sum 4000lbz. that iz a big difference. makes me wonder ho an e.v truck would do against a gas truck of equal weight. e.v’s no good in cold weather. saw a video where buddy spent over an hour heating the system before it would start charging. all this human suffering poverty despair over spending high inflation all over e.v junk jewelry as i see it. why buy a car they could potentially charge on the fly weighs 2000- 7000lbs heavier than gas or diesel. can you imagine the collision between a gas an e.v. .
theze are my thoughts. keep up the good work senator Malcolm Roberts
Thank you for your diligence – this is very important work
First up, recharging stations will be required. Since these will be needed later for civilian use, would it be best to hold the wars here instead of overseas where the enemy will benefit greatest when the show’s over? Should both sides share the same stations or each set up their own? Technology seems forgotten as new replaces. What happened to rubber band powered planes? Pedal tanks made from balsa so as to be light and easy to power? Twenty person crew in a balsa tank pedalling in shifts can go forever. While I’m running hot on ideas. How much CO2 would be saved by removing the explosive stuff from bullets (all sizes)? Back to air-rifles, catapults and even bows and arrows.
Too late now. I should have joined the pubic circus as suggested and become a bureaucrap. Should have listened instead of aiming to be of value to Australia. Alas, for my pocket, too much self respect.
From what I see of the Australian Defence Force they couldn’t defend Green Island. They are led by highly paid people who couldn’t change a car tyre. The whole idea of military is to defend Australia against people choosing to harm us, the only harm I see is a money burning bunch of corrupt incompetent people dressed in camouflage uniforms with reflective bands for safety. 🤣😅🤣😅🤣