Thank you to Ben Fordham of 2GB for inviting me to discuss this inquiry. The inquiry aims to look at potentially illegal medals being awarded to senior defence officers, hear from ADF personnel and explore possible improvements to the Defence Awards and Honours system.
If we want people to serve this country, we have to back them and hold their leadership accountable.
Transcript
Ben Fordham: Well, Australia has a new chief of defence, Admiral David Johnston is in and General Angus Campbell is out. He’s officially stepped down from the role after a rocky six year term. And during that time, General Angus Campbell quickly became one of the most divisive figures in the military. He didn’t do himself any favors when he tried to strip war medals from all troops who served in Afghanistan because a handful were accused of war crimes.
The then defense minister, Peter Dutton, was forced to intervene and he reversed that controversial decision. But now a medal on General Campbell’s chest is being put under the microscope at a new Senate inquiry. He was recommended for the Distinguished Service Cross back in 2011. That’s Australia’s third highest military decoration. The DSC is awarded for distinguished command and leadership in action as commander of forces in Afghanistan.
At the time, the criteria for someone to receive the award required them to be in action, meaning to be under direct fire of an adversary. But out of nowhere, three months after General Campbell was recommended to receive the award, the rules were changed. The criteria of being in action was changed to in warlike operations. Senator Malcolm Roberts, who will lead the inquiry, says senior officers have abused the defence honours and awards system. Meanwhile, enlisted personnel have to fight for recognition and higher ups downgrade their medals. Malcolm Roberts The senator from Queensland, with Pauline Hanson’s One Nation is on the line right now. Senator, good morning to you.
Senator ROBERTS: Good morning, Ben. What a fabulous summary spot on mate, accurate.
Ben Fordham: So what are you suggesting is going on here?
Senator ROBERTS: What I’m suggesting is that these senior officers -the top brass of our Australian Defence Force are looking at medals as a way of rewarding each other, they just seem to think it’s an entitlement that comes with their salary package. But what we’re really looking for is some integrity with regard to the way that the rank and file the serving enlisted soldiers are treated because they’re not getting their medals. And by the way, Ben, I want to thank all ADF people for their service. And I also want to appreciate especially the serving members and veterans who have been working with us to restore accountability over many months in this Australian Defence Force. The pride and respect …
Ben Fordham: I’ll just jump in for a moment and ask you just about General Angus Campbell, because that’s going to be the key thing that people will focus on in this inquiry. As I said, when he was recommended, it was for, well, at the time they said the person who was receiving the award was required to be in action.
Senator ROBERTS: Correct, “two way rifle range”. thinking.
Ben Fordham: Well, hang on a moment. Was he in action? Well, yes, he was over there. He was obviously playing a critical role. But the criteria also said you had to be “under direct fire of an adversary”. And that raised a few flags, didn’t it, that people in the military thinking, well, does General Campbell fall into that category?
Senator ROBERTS: Well, no, he doesn’t. He was away from the action. He was in an air conditioned office several hundred kilometers away and quite safe. What’s really galling people is that the same man refuses to remove his own medal after he tried to strip 3000 people who served in Special operations task force of their Meritorious Unit citation because of the Brereton inquiry. So if he was in action and he was commanding them, then he should have stripped his own medal. But he kept his medal and tried to strip it from the from the soldiers who are actually in direct action.
Ben Fordham: Okay. I just want to stick with this criteria for a moment and can you just confirm this? So originally it said that you had to be under direct fire.
Senator ROBERTS: Correct
Ben Fordham: And that’s when red flags were raised and people were thinking, does he really fall into that category? You say he does not. Then three months after he was recommended to receive the award, the rules were changed and the criteria changed from inaction to in warlike operations. Is that right?
Senator ROBERTS: That is correct Ben. You’ve said it so well, as I said before, you’ve said it so well today. It’s perfect.
Ben Fordham: Okay. So was he in warlike operations?
Senator ROBERTS: Well, he was in the Middle East. He was in near Afghanistan, near the theater of war. But he wasn’t actually actively involved in the war.
Ben Fordham: Why did they change the criteria?
Senator ROBERTS: Probably to justify his medal because he was awarded the medal incorrectly, is my belief.
Ben Fordham: Okay. I want you to elaborate on that. You believe that the criteria changed to suit General Angus Campbell?
Senator ROBERTS: That’s what it looks like Ben. And that’s what a lot of troops are saying. And they’re saying that the top brass are getting medals, not justified, and they’re missing out themselves down the lower ranks.
Ben Fordham: And there had been requests, people had asked questions when the criteria was in action, people actually requested some details to say, okay, can General Angus Campbell give us some answers on when he was in action and there were no answers forthcoming, right?
Senator ROBERTS: Correct. He was mute. There was nothing coming.
Ben Fordham: All right. So will he appear before this inquiry?
Senator ROBERTS: That’s up to the Senate inquiry to justify. I won’t be leading the inquiry. I will be a participating member on it. But it’s a standing inquiry. Standing committee that’s already got six members appointed, but I’ll be participating in it as an additional participatory member. But that’s up to the inquiry and the Senate inquiry if they want to call General Campbell, they can force him to come. They can subpoena him if necessary. So the powers are there.
Ben Fordham: So how do you sum up his time leading the defence force?
Senator ROBERTS: A shambles, mess. The rank and file – the morale in the Australian Defence Forces is atrocious. Where we’ve seen some pride and respect for the Australian Defence Force. We need that to be restored and the troops who are talking to us and there are many saying we’re absolutely correct and that the morale is low, the turnover is high, the recruitment is falling. We have more people leaving than coming to the Australian Defence Force at the moment. We’re going backwards in numbers and so this is a security matter. It’s an essential security matter, a national security matter, Ben.
Ben Fordham: He really lost the dressing room, didn’t he, Malcolm Roberts, when he decided to strip war medals from everyone who served in Afghanistan because a handful were accused of war crimes.
Senator ROBERTS: Exactly. And the Yamamoto principle from second World War says that if a crime is committed in the theater of war by a soldier, then everyone up the line is accountable and responsible. What he did was he stripped medals from – he tried to strip medals from the 3000 and yet hung onto his own. Yet he was commanding the troops he was stripping medals from.
Ben Fordham: And if it wasn’t for Peter Dutton, who was the minister at the time, they would have lost those medals. Thankfully, he stepped in and I’m going to be really keen to see what comes out of this inquiry. So thank you so much for joining us.
Senator ROBERTS: You’re welcome. Ben. Thank you.
Ben Fordham: Malcolm Roberts, the Senator for Queensland with Pauline Hanson’s One Nation.
There is no specific evidence that Angus Campbell was “in action” which is the criteria required for his medal at the time of his nomination.
The honours and awards system has been abused, with senior officers and generals giving medals to each other, while frontline soldiers who faced direct enemy fire must fight yet again, this time for the recognition they rightfully deserve.
This issue goes far deeper than General Campbell. It’s time to clean out all the rot at the highest levels of the Defence Force.
A powerful Senate Inquiry established into the Defence medals system has opened for submissions.
The inquiry initiated by my motion will investigate potentially illegal medals awarded to senior Defence officers, the experiences of ADF personnel and potential improvements to the Defence Awards and Honours system.
I joined Peter Fegan of 4BC Radio to discuss the inquiry into the defence honours and awards system due to my motion being passed in the Senate recently.
The morale within the ADF is alarmingly low, reaching a level that could severely impact our future security.
There is a prevailing sentiment among ADF personnel that the senior leaders are not accountable. The top brass are abandoning enlisted members and veterans, while taking credit for achievements that aren’t rightfully theirs.
Australia has been left almost defenceless after decades of failures from both sides of politics.
They’ve gutted our defence forces and failed our troops. The current Chief of the Defence even criticised a “warrior” culture in our special forces. This is absurd.
We have to give our Defence Force personnel a proper purpose and a clear mission. We need to spend less money on gender advisers and more on ammo.
Transcript
Some commentators question whether we should have warriors in the Australian Defence Force. My answer to that question is emphatic: yes, we should. Australians ask the government to protect them from foreign enemies. There’s a line on a map; it’s called our national border. Inside that line is the country of Australia and its people, and our resources, our families, our property and our way of life.
Outside our borders there are some foreign countries who wish to bend Australia to their will. It’s only a matter of time before someone else in the world with a big enough military believes they can change what happens inside our borders. History shows that. As the people of Australia, we ask our Defence Force to ensure no enemy that wishes to do us harm may cross our border. We take some of the fittest, smartest and most motivated young Australians and ask them to put their lives on the line, for that line, to protect what’s inside it. We ask that our defence members be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. It’s a debt we can never truly repay.
I’ve had the privilege of listening to many soldiers, sailors and pilots. In almost all of those conversations one word comes up. That word is ‘service’. These Australians answered the call to serve our country and to serve our Australian flag. Defence personnel ask for something simple in return. They ask for something that I agree they deserve. They ask for a purpose to their service. They ask for a clear mission. Above all, they ask for accountable leaders. The Defence Force has been in a drought of accountable leadership at the very top. Politicians have always invoked the Anzac spirit in big speeches. But it’s not enough to stand up on Anzac Day and claim to back the troops. We must deliver the things they deserve every day: a clear purpose, a clear mission and accountability for our leaders. Successive politicians, ministers and especially generals have failed to deliver this for our defence personnel.
Australia had forces deployed to Afghanistan for 20 years. Australia’s uniform military was pitted against the Taliban, an insurgent guerrilla organisation. With superior technology, tactics, resources, training and troops, Western forces famously won nearly every tactical engagement. The Taliban reportedly had a saying: ‘You have the watches’—referring to the Western technology—’but we have the time.’ As some commentators quipped, we spent 20 years and billions of dollars and sacrificed Australian lives to replace the Taliban with the Taliban. The tens of thousands of ADF personnel who were deployed to the Middle East deserve our praise. They accepted the call and committed their lives to it. It’s the leaders, the politicians and the generals that must be held accountable for the decision to send our best to faraway lands.
On his last day in parliament, on The 7.30 Report former foreign minister Alexander Downer said that John Howard walked into cabinet when he came back from 9/11 in the US and simply declared, ‘We are off to Iraq.’ There was no discussion with the public and not even a word of debate in parliament, just the lie that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Iraq was an illegal war based on a lie. There were no weapons of mass destruction, as our political leaders claimed. Yet not one politician or general has been jailed for throwing our best into it. Not one was even called out or even held accountable. Our enlisted and junior officers did everything they could to serve us while deployed to the wider Middle East. Scores paid the ultimate sacrifice. What about the politicians and senior generals who failed and hamstrung our soldiers? Those apparent leaders never delivered a coherent reason or an end state for what we were trying to achieve.
Without a compelling reason for why our soldiers were deployed to the Middle East, many of our veterans and serving members were left disillusioned. Make no mistake: there were no angels in the Taliban ranks. Those insurgents were some of the worst of the worst. Despite this, our warriors rightly asked why. Why were we in desert country spilling Australian blood only for the Taliban to retake those bases from the Afghan army, as many on the ground warned they would? The answer is that the leaders failed to ever give our soldiers, aviators and sailors the purpose they deserve.
Our lesson must be to never repeat these mistakes. The mission of our defence forces should be clear. If you sign up for the armed forces, your job will be to protect the sovereignty of Australia from anyone who wishes to do us harm. It will not be to fight forever wars in faraway lands having been sent there based on lies. As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I know that our warriors in the military deserve a place in our hearts, and our service men and women deserve a damn good reason to be there and they deserve and need strong leadership. (Time expired)
https://img.youtube.com/vi/axRI_dUO2Zs/maxresdefault.jpg7201280Senator Malcolm Robertshttps://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/One-Nation-Logo1-300x150.pngSenator Malcolm Roberts2024-08-01 15:30:222024-08-01 17:18:52Australia Left Defenceless After Decades of Failures
On 29 June, protestors vandalised War Memorials in Canberra. These disgusting acts must be condemned.
Freedom of speech and protest are fundamental parts of our democracy. Spray painting memorials of dead soldiers is neither of these.
I joined with Senators Lambie and Hanson in strongly condemning the defacement of war memorials by pro-palestinian protestors, which insults both current and former Australian Defence Force personnel and disrespects the memorials’ significance as national symbols of pride and remembrance.
This divisive campaign by the Greens undermines Australia’s respect for our defence forces and reflects an anti-Australian agenda. Vandalism of these memorials is an affront to our country’s values and those who serve to protect them.
We stand in solidarity with service men and women, their families, and all Australians who honour their sacrifice.
Transcript
One Nation supports this motion, and I’ll read it again:
That the Senate condemns the act of defacing war memorials by pro-Palestinian protestors which is deeply insulting for current and former members of the Australian Defence Force and undermines the significance of these memorials as symbols of national pride and remembrance.
It undermines the very core and heart of our beautiful country, and the Australian people. It undermines the respect we have, as a nation and as individuals, for the service of so many caring Australians in our defence forces, past and present, and it reveals the pro-Palestinian protesters’ true, anti-Australian agenda. I join with Senator Lambie and Senator Hanson in condemning the Greens for this divisive campaign that they are pushing based on ideology and harvesting votes. It is essentially treason—defacing and desecrating our country and what we stand for. Australians, whatever their views of the wars we’ve engaged in, take pride in and honour our service men and women.
I recall a friend of mine; when we were in our 20s, he made the off-the-cuff comment that he despised the War Memorial because it was a memorial to the glory of war. I said: ‘No, no. It’s not. It’s a memorial to the service that men and women have given in supporting and defending this country and what we stand for.’ He has gone on to be a proud grandfather, with two boys now serving in the Army and a daughter serving in the police force of Queensland. He has children and grandchildren who have served and are serving our country.
Free speech, as Senator Cash pointed out, is not vandalism and desecration, which is the violation of property rights and must be punished. To all service men and women and their families and relatives: thank you. We will vote in favour of this motion to condemn the acts of defacing war memorials in your name.
Some constituents raised some concerns about the steroid testing of Australian Defence Force athletes.
At Senate Estimates I asked Sports Integrity Australia whether they have received any notifications from the ADF in relation to steroid testing.
Transcript
Senator ROBERTS: My questions go to sports integrity, Mr Sharpe. Could you briefly explain the rules around testing for athletes, as in who is eligible and who is required?
Mr Sharpe : They’re quite broad. Our focus is on international- and national-level athletes from a testing perspective. We can test lower, but our focus and our policy is that where there’s an absence of education at a lower level, in the first instance, we wouldn’t be testing unless there was specific intelligence that would suggest we need to take a facilitator or someone out of sport.
Senator ROBERTS: Your focus is on international level?
Mr Sharpe : And on a national level.
Senator ROBERTS: Can you explain why athletes that are tested are prohibited from private testing?
Mr Sharpe : They’re not prohibited from private testing.
Senator ROBERTS: Can they go and test themselves?
Mr Sharpe : Absolutely. Sports do have illicit policies, where they all conduct testing around that, which is separate to our agencies. But athletes, if they felt they needed to, would not be prevented from doing that.
Senator ROBERTS: What is the efficacy of hair follicle testing for steroids?
Mr Sharpe : We don’t do hair follicle testing.
Senator ROBERTS: Because it’s not efficacious?
Mr Sharpe : We just don’t do it because we follow the world Anti-Doping Code and it’s not a part of the code.
Senator ROBERTS: Are you aware of the Defence Force exemption from their testing regimes for competitive athletes in the Australian Defence Force?
Mr Sharpe : No, I’m not aware.
Senator ROBERTS: Should Defence be making you aware of any suspicions of doping?
Mr Sharpe : I think that’s a matter for Defence. We’d certainly be willing to work with Defence if it related to a sporting event that was under an anti-doping policy.
Senator ROBERTS: I take it they have not made you aware of any of that.
Mr Sharpe : No, they have not.
Senator ROBERTS: How would you action it if they did make you aware?
Mr Sharpe : It would depend on whether the sport is a registered sport in this country and under an anti-doping policy—whether they participate in those sports or not.
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. That’s the end of my questions.
Why is the ADF so secretive and unwilling to answer straightforward questions? The refusal to provide information is endemic in Defence, and there is no justification for it.
The answer to why three ADF vessels were involved in a photo shoot instead of participating in the search and potential rescue of victims of the downed Taipan helicopter could have easily been provided when I first asked. It could have been given when the question was put on notice. Instead, it was treated as though cloaked in secrecy, despite the fact that the answer was not classified information.
Since these questions, we have discovered that Defence deleted all images of the photo shoot from their website. If it was a simple answer, why the cover-up?
We also know that General Campbell’s assertion that these ships couldn’t operate in the area is nonsense, given that the HMAS Adelaide, according to Defence -“has been designed with the shallowest possible draft to allow her to… manoeuvre tactically in the shallow waters common in the littoral regions”.
The Minister and the ADF need to realise that we are all on the same side and stop trying to withhold information from the Australian public, whom they are employed to serve.
It might be embarrassing, but the cover-up is always worse than the initial crime.
Despite General Campbell’s initial claim that this type of boat couldn’t navigate the waters around the Whitsundays, it turned out to be untrue. General Campbell later clarified that HMAS Adelaide was, in fact, tasked to the search and rescue operation after the photo was taken. Why is it so hard to get a straight answer out of Defence?
Transcript
CHAIR: Senator Roberts, you have the call.
Senator ROBERTS: General Campbell, initially you said that you were unfamiliar with a question on notice; then one of your staff handed you the question on notice this morning. You then had lunch; presumably you chatted. I concluded that you were saying, ‘There’s not a single person in this building right now’—at the time—’in the waiting rooms that can answer whether there was a single vessel on the Exercise Talisman Sabre 2023 maritime photo shoot on 29 July, when the other vessels in the area were searching for the downed Taipan.’ I’ve already asked this four months ago and, while I have a response, I still do not have an answer. You did not answer it on notice; now you want to take it on notice again. I wonder where the Chief of Navy was. Could he explain? Could he have been brought to the table? This is a question about Navy vessels. I’m wondering whether there was no-one in this room or in the waiting rooms who could have answered that question. I’d like to table these documents, Chair.
CHAIR: I’ll have a look at them first.
Senator ROBERTS: The United States Navy has taken a photo and it’s dated 29 July. It’s an obvious photo shoot of the Talisman Sabre fleet and, in it, they say that the American ships are sailing in formation with the Royal Australian Navy Canberra class landing helicopter dock ship HMAS Canberra as part of the Talisman Sabre photo shoot. I’ll wait until you get the photo.
CHAIR: We’re just going to circulate it for information only because we need to be able to verify the photo. I know that there’s other information there, but we need to be able to verify it before we actually agree to table it. For the benefit of the witnesses, I’ll agree for it to be circulated as information only at this stage. As I said earlier, in my opening statement, it would be great if senators could send us an email with an electronic copy so that we can ensure that the secretariat can do what they do in a more efficient manner.
Senator ROBERTS: I’m sure that they’ll be watching.
CHAIR: I’m sure they have other things on, too. Who were you directing your question to?
Gen. Campbell: We have the photographs. What is your question?
Senator ROBERTS: There are several questions. First of all, this shows an Australian vessel at the photo shoot on the 29th and it wasn’t searching for the wreckage or the bodies from the downed Taipan. Why is that the case?
Gen. Campbell: I’ll let the Chief of Navy explain in more detail, but senators will see this photograph is out in open water, in an extended area. There are some ships in the Australian fleet and, indeed, in the US and international partner fleet, that are not suited to the work required in confined waters and with variable depths to deal with searching for a lost helicopter and crew. There’s a distinction here between what is suitable and hence applied to the search and what is not suitable and not considered for the search. I’ll turn to the Chief of Navy, as perhaps he would wish to speak further.
Vice Adm. Hammond: The CDF has laid it out precisely. That large array of ships in the photograph is in open water, some distance from land. It is routine to mark the beginning or the end of a large naval exercise with a group photograph. You’ll see there are aircraft carriers in there of the United States Navy—multiple vessels. There are Australian ships that are not in that photograph, because they were engaged in the search and rescue effort in confined waters inside the Whitsunday Islands. I submit that, had all of those ships been in that search area, we would have had a problem; there just isn’t enough sea room. The focus was on conducting a surface search initially for survivors, as I understand it, and for signs of wreckage. There were civilian craft involved and there were aircraft, rotary wing and fixed-wing, and there was no shortage of assets for that search—that very tragic incident.
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for your explanation. I understand your explanation. I’ll read the two responses that we got to questions on notice. I was specifically asking about a schedule of ships and boats that were available. The answer was: During Exercise Talisman Sabre 23, two maritime photographic activities were held on 22 and 29 July 2023. These activities included vessels participating in the exercise from Australia, the United States, Japan and the Republic of Korea. Nowhere did it give the explanation that you’ve just given—nowhere.
Vice Adm. Hammond: As the Chief of Navy, I’m not involved in the conduct of the Chief of Joint Operations. I suspect that request did not come to me.
Senator ROBERTS: I’m not saying that it did. I’m saying that it came from Defence, and Defence were very guarded in what they said. They said, ‘We were sincere, and we are sincere, in pursuing this issue.’ I got another answer, to question No. 23, which stated: There were six Royal Australian Navy warships in the area of operations on the night of the incident. Defence does not comment on the operational tasking of its assets. When we’ve seen what we’ve seen with the Taipans and been horrified by the loss of life on those Taipans, and then we see the nice photo shoot that we were on, we have a duty to ask those questions. We didn’t get the damn answers. We were led astray. It was suppressed. What you have said makes sense to me. You’re not going to have a US aircraft carrier ploughing around in the Whitsundays looking for a helicopter; I get that. You had at least one boat out in open waters; I get it. Why couldn’t we have been told that? What is Defence repeatedly trying to hide? We have seen issue after issue which Defence seems sensitive about.
Vice Adm. Hammond: I understand your frustration. I am not in a position to answer why there was not a more fulsome response. I stand by my testimony. The resources available that had the necessary capabilities were applied at speed—that is my understanding—the minute the accident was known, which was at night; the night of the accident. I don’t recall being asked for comment in response to your inquiries.
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you. I accept your testimony, but we will be putting further questions on notice about this issue. Chair, I draw to the committee’s attention that there seem to be so many things that this chief of defence forces is either not open about or is hiding.
Senator McAllister: Senator—and Chair, perhaps—is it necessary to make general ad hominem attacks on the officials before the committee? Officials are here to answer questions about the budget. Officials—I think you have observed this morning—are willing to speak, as they have done now, when asked questions about particular matters. I am not sure it assists anyone to make broad and general accusations which are not substantiated against individuals in the room. I am not sure that helps the Senate in its work.
Senator ROBERTS: There are many issues that have not been talked about openly. Senator Shoebridge, Senator Lambie, other senators and I have raised serious issues, and we don’t seem to be getting the answers. Minister, you should have been at least doing a PII when you didn’t. I put the same question to you: there seems to be something that the defence department runs over the top of you—
Senator McAllister: Senator Roberts, I am happy to answer questions. If you have questions, please put them to us; to the officials and to me—
Senator ROBERTS: I am happy to do so. It is not just my frustration; it is my deep sadness at the loss of life which seems to have been unnecessarily lost in those Taipans.
CHAIR: I don’t think anyone would dispute that. We are all very sad about what has happened—
Senator ROBERTS: It borders on anger, though, when it could have been avoided.
Transcript
Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for appearing today. I turn to the MRH-90 Taipan crash in the Whitsundays. We remember the aircrew of 6th Aviation Regiment: Capital Danniel Lyon, Lieutenant Maxwell Nugent, Warrant Officer Class 2 Joseph Laycock, and Corporal Alexander Naggs. Lest we forget. The MRH-90 helicopter crashed into waters around Lindeman Island late Friday night, 28 July 2023—around 10.30 pm, from reports. On 29 July, the search and rescue operation were still looking for missing aircrew and trying to locate the helicopter. At sometime on 29 July the Navy was off on a maritime photoshoot. General Campbell, were there any Australian vessels at the Talisman Sabre 24 maritime photographic exercise on 29 July, 2023; yes or no?
Gen. Campbell: I haven’t come prepared for that question. I will see whether any of my colleagues can answer, otherwise I will have to take it on notice.
Senator ROBERTS: I want to be clear, General Campbell. Late on Friday night the helicopter crashed. On Saturday, the next day, it seems that you could have had maritime assets, tasked on a photoshoot, off and away. What vessels were tasked to the Talisman Sabre maritime photographic activities on 29 July, if any were, and why the hell weren’t they tasked to the search and rescue operation? That is what I would like to know.
Gen. Campbell: We will take it on notice.
Senator ROBERTS: I asked you in October to give me a schedule of all vessels in the area of operations and exactly when each one was tasked to assist with the search-and-rescue operation. You said in question on notice No. 23: Defence does not comment on the operational tasking of its assets. You are not in the middle of a war. This tasking isn’t sensitive information; it is a peacetime search and rescue operation. Why won’t you answer that?
Gen. Campbell: I will have to return to that question on notice to understand the background, for me to be able to your question.
Senator ROBERTS: Were you embarrassed about the ship not being engaged in the search area, but off on a photoshoot?
Gen. Campbell: That has never crossed my mind. I can get the answers for you, but I know that our people engaged in that exercise were very conscious of how to be of assistance in supporting that downed aircraft and, at that stage, the missing aircrew.
Senator ROBERTS: In regard to the failure to provide the schedule of vessels, you don’t get to say, ‘I am not answering that question’ to the Senate. It is time you were reminded of that. You have refused to provide information to this committee, and you do not have any public interest immunity claim lodged. You are, therefore, in contempt of this committee.
CHAIR: Senator Roberts, you may want to withdraw that, unless there is some evidence you are trying to put forward. I suggest you rephrase that line of questioning.
Senator ROBERTS: Chair, a witness is required to produce to this committee any information or documents that are requested. There is no privacy, security, freedom of information or other legislation that overrides this committee’s constitutional powers to gather evidence. Witnesses are protected from any potential prosecution as a result of their evidence or of producing documents to this committee. If anyone seeks to pressure a witness against producing documents, that is also a contempt.
CHAIR: I understand that, but it is a matter for the Senate to determine that. You can put forward the case. I ask if you could withdraw the assertion that the general is in contempt, because that would be a matter for the Senate to work out, if we were to go down that path. Please withdraw that aspect.
Senator ROBERTS: Chair, the general has not provided a public interest immunity claim yet—
CHAIR: It is not a debatable point. I am asking you to withdraw so we can move on, and you can continue your line of questioning.
Senator ROBERTS: Okay; I withdraw.
CHAIR: Thank you.
Senator ROBERTS: Minister, you are well aware of the procedures around estimates. Witnesses cannot just refuse to answer questions or refuse to hand over information. They must ask you, the minister, to raise a public interest immunity claim. It is up to the Senate whether to accept that answer or insist otherwise. Why are you letting Defence run rampant and refuse to hand over information, without even the courtesy of a public interest immunity claim?
Senator McAllister: I do not accept the assertion, or that characterisation of the behaviour of Defence. All senators are aware of the standing orders. That is true for the senators on this side of the table, and the senators sitting before us. The CDF has indicated that he is willing to review the answer that has been provided. He has taken your question on notice. Your question went to the grounds on which the information was not provided. He has indicated that he will examine that. You have asked him to do so, and he has taken it on notice. He will come back to you when he has the information.
Senator ROBERTS: I asked you to give me on notice a list of every report or briefing provided to Defence or created internally raising issues with the Taipan helicopter. Your answer was that this would take too many resources to collate together. That sums up the Taipan, doesn’t it?
Senator McAllister: Again, that question essentially invites speculation on your rhetorical position. If there is a specific question of fact or policy that you wish to address to officials, you should do so. Asking them to speculate about a rhetorical characterisation of a project is not reasonable.
Senator ROBERTS: Minister, are you aware that Defence had said it would take too many resources to collate a list of every report or briefing provided to Defence or created internally raising issues with the Taipan helicopter?
Senator McAllister: Is there a particular question you are referring to?
Senator ROBERTS: Are you aware?
Senator McAllister: This committee asks many questions on notice, and many answers are provided. Is there a number, or a particular question on notice, for which an answer has been provided in these terms that you can point me to?
Senator ROBERTS: Minister, I just explained it.
Senator McAllister: Do you have a number? It is difficult for me to respond if you cannot even tell me which question we are talking about. I am happy to look at it.
Senator ROBERTS: I’ll get back to you on that one.
Gen. Campbell: I refer to the question on notice Senator Roberts was referring to, from 25 October, 2023 on page 52 of the Hansard proof. The answer was: ‘There were six Royal Australian Navy warships in the area of operation on the night of the incident. Defence doesn’t comment on the operational tasking of its assets.’ That is correct—we don’t. But I want to reinforce the assurance that every asset that could be of assistance from Australia or from any of our partner nations in that exercise was tasked to be of assistance.
Senator ROBERTS: General, were any Australian Navy vessels tasked at the same time on a photoshoot?
Gen. Campbell: That is what I will have to come back to you on. You are talking about the next day, the 29th perhaps.
Senator ROBERTS: Correct, while the other vessels were engaged in search and rescue.
Gen. Campbell: I will come back to you on that, Senator.
After questioning members of Defence during Senate Estimates, I spoke in the Senate Chamber in support of Senator Lambie’s Motion that the ADF recruitment and retention crisis is a national security issue.
With more leaving than joining our defence force, putting our ability to defend Australia at risk, there is no denying the ADF is in crisis. As Senator Lambie rightly pointed out, this is a national security issue. We need a ready, able and capable military force. It’s not enough to sit back and hope that the United States will come to our aid. We must ensure we are self-reliant in this country for our own defence.
Given his track record so far, it’s clear that until the Chief of the Defence Force, General Angus Campbell, is removed from his post, we will not have the defence force we once had. We must recognise our diggers for who they are – the people who care about our country and who are putting their heart and soul into defending this country.
Spend less money on “gender advisers” and more on ammo for training and diggers might just want to stick around.
Transcript
As a servant to the many fine people of Queensland and Australia, I speak on, and strongly support, Senator Lambie’s motion that the ADF recruitment and retention crisis is a national security issue. Senator Lambie, Senator Shoebridge and I spent a lot of time questioning Defence last week at Senate estimates. It was revealed at those h4earings that, despite all of Defence’s glossy recruitment brochures—as Senator Shoebridge accurately described them—there’s almost no mention of the fact that the headcount of defence personnel has gone backwards. There are more people leaving defence than joining, despite large recruitment and retention targets and huge expenditure.
The responsibility for this utter failure sits squarely with Defence’s upper brass and with the politicians, for failing to keep them in line. The branch chiefs are all led—and I use that term loosely, when it comes to this man—by the Chief of the Defence Force, General Angus Campbell. He is paid more than $1 million a year at a time when defence personnel receive a real wage cut. It’s difficult to find a KPI or a metric that General Campbell hasn’t failed on in his time as head of the Defence Force: recruitment and retention goals—failed; Taipan helicopters—failed; the Hunter class future frigates—failed. There are questions over whether a medal that General Campbell wears on his chest today—the Distinguished Service Cross—was given to him legally.
Over 100 active special forces soldiers have discharged from the force after General Campbell threw them under the bus at a press conference in 2020, tarring them with accusations of war crimes before a single charge had been laid. One of the most elite fighting forces in the world—the Special Air Service Regiment, or SASR—is reportedly facing a complete capability crisis as operators leave Defence because their supposed leaders don’t care about their welfare. The chair of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide, Nick Kaldas, has been scathing of Defence and its leadership. He specifically called out the successive failure of governments, the Australian Defence Force and the Department of Veterans’ Affairs to adequately protect the mental health and wellbeing of those who serve our country.
Our defence force is in crisis on many fronts. The ability to defend this country is at risk, and it’s a national security issue, as Senator Lambie rightly points out. We cannot just close our eyes and cross our fingers and hope that the United States will turn up and help us out. We need a ready, able and capable defence force as much as ever. Given his track record so far, it’s clear we won’t get one until the Chief of the Defence Force, General Angus Campbell, is removed from his post and until we start treating the diggers as the people they really are: the people who care about our country and who are putting their heart and soul into defending his country.
https://img.youtube.com/vi/LLGnRHCzGVo/maxresdefault.jpg7201280Senator Malcolm Robertshttps://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/One-Nation-Logo1-300x150.pngSenator Malcolm Roberts2023-11-23 15:49:262023-11-23 15:49:30Australian Defence Force – Less Money on Gender Advisers, More on Ammo!
I had the privilege of reading a letter sent by a Special Forces Veteran into the HANSARD record.
He shockingly details the Chief of the Defence Force (CDF) General Angus Campbell abandoning the soldiers that served under him. Due to the CDF’s successive failures and appalling state of Defence bureaucrats, the soldiers are abandoning him.
We need to make our Defence Force as lethal and full of warriors as possible, but that won’t happen with the current CDF at the helm.
Transcript
Tonight I’ll read a letter from a constituent, a special forces veteran who chose to leave the Australian Defence Force after seeing Defence leadership callously throwing soldiers under the bus. It’s a long letter, a clear and scathing indictment of Defence’s supposed leaders. Here’s the letter:
Dear Senator Roberts
On the 19th of November 2020 a certain number of SASR soldiers were accused of having a toxic culture with the release of the Brereton report.
This was a sound bite Chief of the Defence Force General Angus Campbell, AO DSC, repeated to the world. He accused Australian special forces non-commissioned officers of attempting to fuse excellence with Ego, Elitism and Entitlement.
The Brereton report, written by General Campbell’s subordinate, absolved successive defence force leaders of anything other than ‘moral responsibility’, including the CDF.
It wasn’t written in the report, but the message was loud and clear: there was another “E” in the equation. That of Exemption, Exemption for defence force senior leaders.
The Inspector General Australian Defence Force investigation and media campaign was clearly endorsed by ADF leadership.
In contrast, we have seen the lower ranks of those who served Australia in the Special Operations Task Force/Group in Afghanistan systemically abused, disempowered, marginalised and their valuable service denigrated.
Many of these men and women have since medically discharged due to poor mental health caused not only by aspects of their active service, but more damagingly, their treatment by defence and the media on returning home.
Treatment akin to that of a bygone era.
We have seen ADF leaders recuse themselves from command responsibility and the very laws and standards established after World War 2.
The Yamashita standard saw the Allies demand a Japanese General be hung for crimes committed by his soldiers.
Now, after losing our war, and in the hope of avoiding scrutiny from the International Criminal Court for their failures, it is OUR military leadership who demand their soldiers who fought under their command be punished while they refuse to accept anything other than meaningless ‘moral responsibility.
During the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the combined total cost to the Australian taxpayer was approximately $13.5 billion.
During that same time frame Australian soldiers fought with substandard and rented ISR, Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance equipment.
They had no integrated close air support and borrowed US helicopters.
Both Government and Defence ‘procurement specialists’ wasted three times the cost of both wars on failed and failing procurements.
Now, we see the failed MRH-90 Taipan helicopter procurement feature in the tragic loss of life, devastating defence families and the serving community.
We have seen veterans abandoned by defence and given no choice but to defend themselves in court without financial, legal, moral, or any other form of support from the same leaders they once served. This situation demonstrates complete disregard for those who loyally fought the wars of our generation and of the families who supported them.
This ongoing treatment by defence leadership is yet another failure in their duty of care to the people they proclaim to value.
Leadership then took their disregard a step further giving tacit approval to journalists by failing to correct the lies and fabrications they published.
We saw the CDF and his service chiefs demand that senators’ questions in relation to the failure of the MRH90 helicopter be considered and respectful due to the families impacted by loss.
This is a stance in complete contradiction to his grandstanding on the release of the Brereton Report, an uncaring act ignorant of the thousands of families impacted, and without consideration of the accuracy of the unproven and untested allegations, or of jurisprudence.
We saw a victim falsely labelled a perpetrator by the cold and dispassionate Royal Australian Airforce chief.
When offered the chance to set right the incorrect and damaging slur, the chief instead doubled down on his untrue statement with impunity.
This further damages all victims in defence, while simultaneously highlighting to Australia the class distinction between an out of touch but untouchable leadership, and those they supposedly lead.
We have seen defence leadership use national security as an excuse to cover their lies, mistruths, and omissions.
And we have seen how the same leaders hide behind the ‘in consideration of the impact on families’ excuse, selfishly treating grieving families as human shields to protect their reputations.
These families are strong families, they have supported loved ones through their years of service to this country, they don’t need protection, they need the truth.
And now, we have seen elected senators voicing the concerns of their constituents and veterans, be labelled as divisive and bullied by the leader of Australia’s Military.
If a lower ranked service member had publicly acted in the same way the CDF did at Senate Estimates, they would likely be charged with prejudicial conduct.
If the civilian overseers, the elected senators responsible for scrutinising defence force activities and spending, are not immune from the wrath of our Defence force leaders, is there anyone in Canberra able to hold them to account?
People do not leave bad jobs; they leave bad bosses. Defence has been pushing woke agendas to appease minorities leading to so many poorly conceived and implemented reforms.
Furthermore, due to the defence leadership’s damaging use of the media to denigrate its veterans whilst recusing themselves, they have sidelined and denigrated ADF’s best assets, its people, and they are leaving in droves.
This devastating recruitment and retention crisis is weakening Australia’s defence capability and national security, the very thing our leaders say they are protecting.
This exodus of people from the ADF creates a vacuum that will take years to replace. These men and women are patriots; they are not leaving defence due to the promise of better-paid jobs.
They are leaving because they are not valued and because of the incompetence, failures, double standards, blame-shifting, and lack of support from defence leaders.
What has been the leadership’s answer to the current recruitment and retention crisis?
To appoint yet another general to investigate why those who did, and those who normally would serve our great nation, no longer wish to do so.
It’s a weak, box-ticking exercise to avoid leadership accountability and fails to resolve the issues.
To Defence leadership, I say, if your medals are so important to you, keep them, and take ours back; there are more pressing items on the agenda.
Over two decades, incompetence in a Defence hierarchy more intent on accolades, awards, and power, has mismanaged Australia’s defence force into its weakest ever position, and done so at a time when the world is in its most volatile and dangerous state since World War 2.
These leaders leave us poorly defended, and solely reliant on another nation with a dubious track record for supporting its allies in war.
Those of us who have been to war, who have been ‘in action’, don’t relish another one, especially one fought at home, that require our children to fight.
On releasing the IGADF Brereton report into war crimes allegations, Angus Campbell was reporting as saying, “We are a nation that stands up when something goes wrong and deals with it and that is what I intend to do.”
Well, as a concerned special forces veteran and father of Australian sons, this is me standing up, hoping someone in government will deal with this crisis.
Or am I right with the final E? Exemption: Are our Defence Force leaders truly exempt from their failures and above international and domestic laws? The sorely needed Royal Commission into veteran suicides is a direct reflection of the poor leadership that has mismanaged defence over decades.
A Royal Commission into ADF leadership, specifically the failures in leadership during the Afghanistan war, and subsequent to it, is now imperative to ensure the same failures are not repeated. The Government fails the nation if it does not.
Signed: A concerned father and ADF Veteran.
Name and address supplied.
Anyone who hears the letter I just read into the Senate Hansard record will understand why many soldiers, veterans and senators, including me, have called for the Chief of the Defence Force, General Angus Campbell, to be fired. There are too many examples of hypocrisy, failure and incompetence from Defence leadership to list them all in one letter or one speech. Get rid of every single general who isn’t completely focused on making sure our Defence Force is as capable and lethal as possible. The safety and sovereignty of the entire nation require it.
The state of the Defence Force is the fault of many successive governments and shiny generals, yet the responsibility for the current state of Defence must lie with the current head of the organisation, and that is General Angus Campbell. The Defence Force is going backwards—literally, when it comes to headcount—and the Special Air Service Regiment is facing an unprecedented capability crisis. One Nation believes warriors should be welcome in our military. We don’t need to spend time making sure drones are gender neutral. How about we just buy enough drones to defend ourselves? Spend money on ammo for our defence personnel to train with, not more gender advisers. Give medals to the heroes who show bravery in combat, not the bureaucrats who sit in air conditioning and shine their arse for half the war. The safety and sovereignty of our entire nation require that our ADF, the Australian Defence Force, starting at the top, tell the truth and be held accountable.
