The Cashless Debit Card is controversial. Last week One Nation voted to extend the trial of the system. Controversial because activists, Labor and the Greens are ignoring the facts and confusing the public with mistruths.
Firstly, it’s not a cashless program. Recipients still have between 20% and 50% in cash. Secondly, this is a program that was requested from communities to help protect children and families. This system stops people from using their entire taxpayer funded welfare payments on alcohol, gambling, drugs and cigarettes.
Reports from those on the system and their communities are already claiming that there are less hungry children and less violence and crime. This program protects children and families and taxpayer welfare payments. There are no plans to extend this program to the pension. This is a scare campaign by the left. And we wouldn’t support it anyway.
Transcript
Hi, I’m Senator Malcolm Roberts, and I’m in Parliament House, Canberra. And I want to discuss the cashless debit card or it’s actually the less-cash debit card because it still comes with cash. Why are we doing it? And why do we support the government’s trial? Because it’s all about kids and families, protecting kids and families.
Making sure that kids get a belly full of food and it’s not just consumed, the money is not just wasted on alcohol and booze from their parents. So it’s about the future of our country because kids learn better at school. They develop better physically when they’ve got full bellies and not starving. It’s about kids and families.
Making sure that the money from taxpayers goes to people who deserve the welfare. So that leads me to my second point. And that, that as a Senator, I have responsibility not just to the people who need welfare and support, but to the people who pay for the welfare and the support, the taxpayer. So we have to make sure that the taxpayer’s money provides value for the taxpayer.
‘Cause it’s a lot of money for taxpayers, who have worked hard to get that money and to see it wasted on booze and drugs and gambling and cigarettes, is just not on. The third thing is that, I hinted to it earlier. It’s a less-cash card, it’s not a cash-less card. There’s cash still involved, the proportion of cash varies from 20% through to 50%, depending upon the community.
This is a trial and they’re trialling many different parameters. And that means that as people learn from the trial, and the trial has now been going for a few years. As people learn, they tweak the trial because they learn from their mistakes and let’s remove the mistakes, and they see other opportunities. And so they wanna make sure that people benefit from that.
And remember, the less-cash card came out of requests from communities where there was massive abuse of kids and families. Waste of money, tearing up the communities. Those communities approached government and wanted help. Liberal National Party Government, and the Labour Party Government under Gillard.
So this is about protecting our future, and protecting taxpayers, and above all, protecting kids. So it is a difficult issue, an emotional issue. It’s been distorted by various people using lots of lies and slang, but it is about protecting kids, protecting families, and protecting taxpayers, and making sure that Australia gets value for its money.
And now on Marcus Paul in the Morning, Senator Malcolm Roberts.
[Marcus Paul]
All right, welcome back. At 19 to eight, 19 to seven in Queensland. Malcolm, good morning!
[Malcolm Roberts]
Good morning, Marcus. How are you?
[Marcus Paul]
No bad at all, not bad. How are things in Canberra?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Foggy.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Because we didn’t get much sleep last night, we debated the cash ban, the cashless debit card until gee, I don’t know, I guess 12:30, something like that.
[Marcus Paul]
And you still didn’t come up with the right result?
[Malcolm Roberts]
No, we did, mate, we did. We’ve gotta protect taxpayers as well as welfare recipients-
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah?
[Malcolm Roberts]
And vulnerable kids in in some of these communities.
[Marcus Paul]
True, true.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And then that’s, so I’ve got dual responsibility, and that’s what we did. We looked after the taxpayer-
[Marcus Paul]
I understand.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And people who are receiving welfare.
[Marcus Paul]
Are you not concerned like I am, Malcolm, that this will give a green light to the government in the future to privatise our welfare system?
[Malcolm Roberts]
No, I’m not concerned about privatising welfare. I don’t think that’ll happen. It’s just too-
[Marcus Paul]
Well, this is exactly, what is this?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Too great a responsibility.
[Marcus Paul]
But hang on, Malcolm. This is exactly what is happening. In the guard-
[Malcolm Roberts]
No, it’s not.
[Marcus Paul]
Well, of course it is, Indue, who do you think Indue was operated by?
[Malcolm Roberts]
That’s the people operating the actual transfer of the cash, but the welfare system is still under the federal government.
[Marcus Paul]
Yes, but we’ve outsourced it to, oh, I dunno, to a mob that apparently is linked to the Liberal Party and donate to the Liberal Party. And we’ve got, what, when does it, since when does the federal government take advice from a mining magnate?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Now, now you’re onto something. That’s, there are questions we’re going to be asking because I’m not at all happy about that arrangement. We haven’t seen that, that hasn’t been transparent, mate, and I think you’ve got a very good question there. But this is a trial and as trials go, we learn things and then it becomes more and more flexible, so we’ve gotta change the trial in certain ways as we learn and that’s been done, and I think it’s been done in a very responsible way. But yeah, the question’s about who runs it, that is it.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, all right, but don’t you think, Malcolm, that it’s, you know it’s painting a lot of people with the same brush. I mean, we’ve been very critical of the government in relation to the Brereton Report and essentially just saying that, oh, well, you know, and we’ve got the minister doubling down now over the last 24, 48 hours on alleged atrocities in Afghanistan.
And you know, they’re talking about pulling meritorious citations from the 3,000 people who served, even though only a fraction of them, not even at a tiny minute percentage, have been alleged of these atrocities. And again, they’re all being branded with the same brush. Not everybody who’s on welfare, even in these regions where it’s being trialled, Sudener and otherwise, not everybody on these welfare cards drinks, takes drugs, or spends money on gambling.
What happens if they wanna go to the local markets? What happens if they need to get cash out to, I dunno, buy something at the corner store because they won’t take the Indue card?
[Malcolm Roberts]
These are good questions, and that’s what the purpose of the trial is, to understand how to resolve that. But you know, there are various proportions of cash in some of the trials, it’s 50:50 cash and credit and card. In others, it’s 80:20, 20% cash. But we have to remember that the future of Australia is literally at stake here because we’re having kids grow up with no food. How can they be educated? How can they survive? How can they grow into in the future leaders of our country, future leaders of our communities-
[Marcus Paul]
Fair enough.
[Malcolm Roberts]
With that experience? This is really about a very humanitarian approach, anyway.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, I get that and look, I’m not, I don’t, I don’t have an issue or a problem with the thought behind it. Of course, we need to try and protect children. We need to ensure they’re receiving everything they need to get the best start in life and to live up to their potential. I worry that it’s just a one size fits all approach and that some people who genuinely, and I’ve received correspondence from many people who are on this card, saying that, you know, it’s unfair.
I feel like a criminal and, you know, people look at me when I produce this card at the local shopping centre, and I can’t, you know, anyway. But I guess that’s discussions for another time because it’s now been extended for two years and the trials will continue. Am I right in saying that perhaps they’re looking at doing it in the Hunter in the Newcastle region?
[Malcolm Roberts]
I don’t know where they’re looking at doing it. It was extended into Cape York and other parts of the territory there. They’re making changes to some of the ways of operating, the ways and distributing it.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, true.
[Malcolm Roberts]
So, you know, it comes out in the trial markets. Now, I’ll give the government, remember that some of this was implemented by the Rudd, Gillard government, some of it was foreshadowed by the Howard government. But the most important thing I think of all to remember is that these were done as a request to help income management, to protect kids, to protect families, especially in the territory and in parts of Queensland.
So, you know, and we all have a responsibility to make sure that the taxpayer’s money is used wisely and not used for, you know, booze and gambling and drugs.
[Marcus Paul]
Well, I think we all agree on that. All right, speaking of cash money, $10,000 cash ban is dead, dead, dead. That’s a big win.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes, very big win. We moved that motion to remove that cash ban bill, the government’s cash ban bill, from the Senate legislation list. And you may remember that when that was introduced quietly, it was my office in particular that raised the hell about that.
And we got an alliance from right across the coal, the crossbench senators, and then we attacked the Labor Party on it, we went to Stephen Jones, the shadow minister for finance in the Labor Party, and still, the Labor Party passed it in the lower house along with the Liberals, a lot of things happened in parliament with Labor and Liberal working together.
And these things that are hurting, hurting people, everyday Australians, especially rural people who can’t get access to cash, mate, and especially all the people.
[Marcus Paul]
All right.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And so what happened was we actually got it sent to a committee in the upper, in the Senate, and then it came out of the committee, there were a whole list of serious problems about it, but the committee still, because it was dominated by Labor and Liberals, still recommended passing the bill. But we created such a fuss that it actually became an embarrassment and the government, I think, was relieved to have us push it off.
[Marcus Paul]
Well, good because cash is legal tender and it should never be refused by merchants. But Woolworths have announced some stores will no longer accept cash. I mean, this war on cash being used in our country needs to stop, Malcolm.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes, you’re absolutely right. And that’s what we’ve been pointing out. We’ve got a fabulous response to the petition we started on our Facebook page, Marcus. And it’s very important to understand that the cash ban bill was binned as a result of a very, very strong wave of of public support for getting rid of that cash ban.
[Marcus Paul]
Yes, all right, the tensions with China. Is it just a trade spat? Or is there more to this, do you think?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Much more to it, and it really points to our governance in this country under both Labor and Liberal and the Nationals. Because China is a totalitarian communist party that’s leading that country and they’re just bullies. And bullies go for the weak link. And so, we must stand up to it, but why are we considered weak?
When if you look at China, we export our iron ore and coal to China so that they can make wind turbines and solar panels. They come back to Australia, they export wind turbines and solar panels to our country. We then subsidise the construction of solar generators and wind turbines, and we subsidise that and that drives up our electricity prices.
So we end up exporting jobs to the Chinese, because a lot of the construction companies on the unreliables, on the alternatives to coal-fired power stations, that was the solar and the wind, they’re Chinese-owned. So the Chinese are making profits out of our raw materials and they’re destroying, they’re not destroying, but our government, state and federal, are destroying our electricity sector.
And Marcus, the fundamental thing with electric, with manufacturing these days, and we want a recovery from COVID, and go beyond that is electricity prices. Electricity prices are greater in the bigger cost in most manufacturing than Labor. So what we’re doing is we’re destroying our manufacturing sector and some of our agricultural sector and we’re subsidising the Chinese to do it. I mean, but that’s, the Chinese are not doing anything wrong there, we’re the bunnies-
[Marcus Paul]
Well, we’re the ones who have allowed it, yes.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, that’s right, and what the Chinese can see is that they have signed a Paris agreement commitment that says they will do nothing, and they can see us. They can see us signing over our sovereignty to the UN in so many areas now since 1975, that’s 45 years, half a century. And they’re thinking these people, the Australians, contradict their own values. They destroy their own sovereignty. What is the matter with these people?
They’re vulnerable, they’re weak. And our governments under Labor, Liberal, and Nationals have been absolutely pathetic now for around 45 years. Ever since we signed that stupid Lima Declaration that by Whitlam’s Labor government in 1975 and it was ratified the following year by Fraser’s Liberal-National government. I mean, they’re selling out our country and the Chinese can see that, and they can see we’re weak and gutless, and they just running over the top of us. They think that they can bend us.
[Marcus Paul]
All right, well, speaking of maybe the Chinese running over the top of us, as you’ve put it, Keswick Island, just off the coast of-
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes.
[Marcus Paul]
We’ve got the Queensland government signing a lease with China Bloom until 2096 for 117 hectares. They wanna build a tourist resort to accommodate some 3,000 people. And it would appear that locals are not involved in this process. They’re not allowed to access their beach, their jetty has gone. People who were renting there have been turfed off the island with just given 48 hours to leave. Is this Australia or where are we?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Exactly, this should be Australia, but it’s not under the Queensland Labor government and under the federal Liberal-National government. And the important thing here to remember is that some of these places on Keswick Island are public places, public spaces, and what the Chinese are doing, the Chinese owners are denying Australians access to those public spaces, that is wrong. And we’re gonna raise hell about this.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, well, I’ve seen the stories and there’ve been some good reports on this. I can’t believe that we allow ownership by overseas interests to be able to, isn’t a lot of this land national park?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes, that’s correct. And they denying people access to that. You know that, Pauline and I raised an amendment in a bill that improves foreign investment review board control.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah.
[Malcolm Roberts]
We raised the need to put tighter controls on things in a national interest, the national interest test.
[Marcus Paul]
That’s right.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Being one of the tests for giving others, giving foreigners control over some of our assets. And that was turned down, pulling over the only ones, Labor, Liberal, Centre Alliance, Greens, National Party all voted against putting that national interest as a test for firms. The other thing, Marcus, is that they even rejected our amendment to have a register of foreign ownership of water.
[Marcus Paul]
Oh, well, yes, we’ve gone through that in New South Wales with the shooters and fishers, I mean, poor Helen Dalton, our warrior, water warrior, who’s a frequent caller on this program’s been trying to get a fully transparent water register up in New South Wales for God knows how long, but the, you know the Nationals, who are supposed to be looking after people in the bush, don’t want a bar of it, including Melinda Pavey, the water minister.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, it seems to me the Nationals are looking after farmers in the northern parts of New South Wales. And there’s unlimited floodplain harvesting. And you know, that needs to be regulated.
In Queensland, it is regulated, and Cubbie Station, even though it’s been vilified, has done an absolutely marvellous job, highly, highly responsible, the way it does it. But northern New South Wales, they’re just tearing the guts out of the water. And that’s, you know, what happens, Marcus, is that the northern basin, the Murray-Darling Basin, is quite different from the southern.
[Marcus Paul]
Yeah, of course.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And the southerners pay when the north can’t deliver water because the northern areas are intermittent water providers. And so, the southerners always end up paying. But the other thing that’s happening is the South Australians are basically telling lies about what’s happened to water in their state.
They have destroyed their environment in the Coorong through their own stupid policies, and they’re expecting people in New South Wales, Queensland, and Victoria to pay the price. And then when the water doesn’t come down from the floodplain harvesting in northern New South Wales, the southerners in southern New South Wales and northern Victoria, they’re paying, they’re paying dearly. Very, very serious issue.
[Marcus Paul]
All right, Malcolm, always good to chat back. We’ll catch up again next week.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Have a good weekend. Thanks Marcus.
[Marcus Paul]
Thank you and all of this, One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts on the programme. Okay, four and a half minutes away from eight o’clock news on the way. Marie, are you there?
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/xaLhe8X76ec/maxresdefault.jpg7201280Senator Malcolm Robertshttps://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/One-Nation-Logo1-300x150.pngSenator Malcolm Roberts2020-12-14 15:01:572020-12-14 15:40:25Cashless Debit Card – 2SM with Marcus Paul
Hi, I’m Senator Malcolm Roberts and I’m in Parliament House in Canberra. I’d like you to watch a few clips coming up from a debate last night in the Senate. They’re clips of Senator Hanson and I addressing the word Racism and the word Racist. We’ve noticed that, over the last few years, people use those terms when they don’t have facts, don’t have data, and don’t have a logical argument to counter us.
So what some of the Greens were doing, some of the weaker greens and some of the weaker people in the Labor Party, they were diverting attention from the merits of the Cashless Debit Card and calling its supporters racists or invoking racism so Pauline and I decided to launch into that. Have a look at these clips and see what you think.
[Malcolm Roberts]
To the minister. It’s very sad to see and disappointing to see the term racist and racism used as an excuse because whenever I’ve seen it, it’s been an excuse covering the lack of facts and solid logical argument. And it seems to be meant to intimidate and silence and divert. It won’t silence people who have the facts. Has there ever been any targeting of groups, either under Labour or the Liberal National Party governments, or is this initiative broadly based upon people’s needs and protecting children?
[Deputy President]
Minister.
[Minster]
Thank you, thank you very much Senator Roberts. The measure is targeted at the people that are on income working age, income support within geographical areas.
[Deputy President]
Senator Roberts.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Thank you. Minister, just seems to be continuing on this racist theme. My understanding of racist and racism is where one group, a particular race, is classified or thought of as inferior or superior. Is there any discussion at all, or labelling of any group within the department as inferior or superior or is this based on needs?
[Deputy President]
Order, order. Order. Minister.
[Minster]
Thank you very much, Madam Deputy President. As I have stated on a number of occasions, the cashless debit card is in places where the community have sought for the support and help of the government through the implementation of this card and other associated measures. And there were quite a number of them including, many of the wraparound services and support services that exist as well. But the card is in places on the basis of the request of the leaders within a geographical community area.
[Pauline Hanson]
Thank you very much. Well, I’ve listened to the debate and I’ve listened to some of the questions that have been asked to you tonight and really disturbs me. The question being asked is this about racism? Is it racist and the policies of where you pick theories, this- I asked the minister directly, how did it come about and the areas that were picked.
The areas were picked just because of community whether it be the mayors, the councillors, the community themselves, the business leaders, or even community leaders have asked for this trial. Whether – and the whole fact is yes, the same because the population and Senator Wong asked the question about the percentages and we got and high 40% of one area are indigenous and yet another area got 80% indigenous so where you have the majority are non-indigenous.
We as a parliament need to look at and leaders of this nation we need to actually look at what is the best interest of the people. This was a trial that was put out. These are communities that asked for this trial, it’s a card that is actually going to restrict the spending of the money to 80% has to be spent on central services, meaning paying the rent, buying food, clothes for the kids, and it’s actually ensures there’s food on the table.
Isn’t the basis of what we’re all should be concerned about is the wellbeing of the children. Adults can take care of themselves, children can’t, children rely on the parents. If we have a problem in our society where the parents are tied up in alcohol or drug abuse or gambling, that the money doesn’t get to where it should get, isn’t that the basis of why we are looking at this card. And it doesn’t matter what race or colour of your skin is we have problems right across our whole society we have this problem and especially in regional and rural areas there’s a huge drug problem. I hear it constantly all the time.
The thing is that you talk about is it racist? I can go into many areas that I can say we have racist policies in Australia.
[Deputy President]
Order.
[Pauline Hanson]
That is purely based on the fact that because if you’re indigenous you get extra funding, you get care taken for you. So I’m not gonna head down that path as many Australians know that. I don’t think that’s the basis of what we should be looking out here. I’ve travelled these indigenous communities I’ve been there and I’ve seen the problems that we have there, but it’s not only in the indigenous communities we got in other areas in Australia that needs to be addressed. But we as the leaders of this nation we must look at what are we trying to achieve here? It’s the benefit of the future generations. Kids in these communities are not getting schooled, they are not getting the care that they need, they’re not getting fed. So the fact is that that’s what we need to address. We actually have to also look at the fact that the communities have asked for this, I’ve listened to the indigenous leaders that have begged for the card.
[Deputy President]
Order.
[Pauline Hanson]
That they wanted this card. We have people opting in for this card. We have people in communities are saying we can’t control our money because our family and friends come to us and they force us to hand over the money to them. Now they have control of their money. What are you actually worried about? They’ve got 20% of their money they can still spend as they wish, 80% is going to the needs that they need for their household, for the children to look after children. If you look at the stats and reports and I haven’t got the figures in front of me.
[Deputy President]
Order.
[Pauline Hanson]
But a lot of the figures were 40% plus were actually saying there’s less drug use, there is less gambling, there is less domestic violence. The replace report that came in said there’s less domestic violence and promise to having more kids are going to school, they’re actually being fed before they go to school. These are the actual facts just sit here and argue over the fact is it racist policy is not what this is about. And I’m sick of people, some people in this chamber calling themselves as if they’re the victims. Our job is to make sure good policy for all people, all Australians, that they actually have the benefit of our wise decisions.
[Deputy President]
Order.
[Pauline Hanson]
Because they are relying on us to make the right decisions in this parliament,
[Deputy President]
Senator Wong, oh, sorry I thought you finished.
[Pauline Hanson]
I hadn’t.
[Deputy President]
Continue, Senator Hanson
[Pauline Hanson]
Thank you very much. Also, the fact is that on websites we are seeing and the scaremongering that is going on on the opposition side parliament telling it is the elderly who are going to be affected by this people ringing up my office and saying, “Well, it is the age pensioners “that are going to be losing this due to the card.” There is no talk about that whatsoever, that question has been asked by the government it is not going to include the aged.
So I’m sick of the scaremongering that’s going on with people because I’m getting that and it is up on the website but you clearly say it is the elderly. And so people think and the veterans that you’re gonna tie them up in this and it’s got nothing to do with them. This has been completely blown out of proportion by people telling lies and not telling the truth to the Australian public to know the benefits of this card, minister then I asked you the question clarify here in this chamber to the people of Australia are aged pensions going to be involved on this card?
Are the people who are on disability pension going to be included on this card? Who is it actually going to affect? Do you intend, and I think the Australian people need to know have a direct answer, is this going to be rolled out in this term of parliament till the next election to all Australians? Because that is what is been said to all the Australians in lies to the putting out by the opposition and lies have been put out by the Greens Party.
I want the people have to have an honest answer that is recorded here in the parliament is this going to include the elderly, is this going to include those in disability pensions, is it going to be rolled out to all Australians before the next election? And what do you intend to do with your policies after next election minister?
[Deputy President]
Minister.
[Minister]
Thank you very much.
[Deputy President]
Order
[Minister]
Madam deputy present, I’ll try and answer all the components of the Senator Hanson’s questions and contribution. And I apologise if I miss some of them but I’m more than happy to come back to them.
Firstly, I acknowledge the second reading amendment of Senator Patrick which did give us the opportunity to put on the record that the government has provided a commitment through that second reading, supporting of that second reading amendment that no recipient of the age pension or a veteran or services pension will be placed on the cashless debit card. There are however, a couple of exceptions to that and I wanna put that on the record very, very clearly, very, very clearly.
[Deputy President]
Order.
[Minister]
With the exception, and there are two main categories of exemption, people on the age pension are able to voluntarily seek to go on to the card whether it be the Basics Card or the CDC. And we know in the Northern Territory around two and a half thousand people that are on the Basics Card in the Northern Territory are actually, have gone on so voluntarily. And of those two and a half thousand people that are on voluntarily are over 800 of them are actually aged pensioners.
The second category of people who could be on income management who are of pension age or also on a pension, are those that have been either referred by the Family Responsibilities Commission and for those who are listening and don’t know what the Family Responsibilities Commission is, it is the group of commissioners in the Cape York that make the decisions in relation to the people of that community, and it’s also contained in this bill.
Where child protection workers, social workers, or Alcohol Mandatory Treatment Tribunal in the Northern Territory has requested on the basis of safety, either safety of the individual or safety of those in their care that they go on to the card. There are only a very few people who are on the card for that reason. However, I just wanna be very, very clear they are the only two categories of people on the age pension that are on a subject to income management.
In relation to your comments around, the information and the data around what we’re seeing is improvements as a result of the cashless debit card and income management. As I said, in and of itself they are not the single silver bullet. You sort of remedy all for some of the problems that they are, the cashless debit card and the Basics Card we’re seeking to reduce.
They are but one component of a suite of measures that needs to be put together to bring about the kind of change that the communities who have sought access to the cashless debit card have requested. And in reading the letter of support that I received from the community leaders in Ceduna there were many things that these communities that observed over the time that the cashless debit card has been in place in that community and I’ll just read just a little bit of the letter that I received, Senator Hanson.
And I quote, this is actually a quote, “Since the introduction of the cashless debit card, “we have observed positive changes in our communities. “Fewer vulnerable people have been harassed or humbled” These are their words, “To hand over cash to others. “More children are attending school, “families have money to spend on groceries “and alcohol fueled violence has decreased. “Our communities are safer, “people are saying they have the money they need “to provide for the basics of life “such as buying clothes and food and paying rent and bills.”
And this does not flow there’s more in between it, but the final statement that these community leaders across the whole of Australia and we have community leaders that have signed this letter to me today Senator Hanson from all of the 12 sites around Australia, the final sentence.
And I think is, “In order to create stronger, safer, “and healthy communities now and for generations to come “we call upon a parliamentary representatives “to pass the Social Security “Amendment Bill 2020.” So they are in the words of the people who are at the coalface, these are the people whose communities this card serves.
