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I raised concerns about the use of smart meters, highlighting that they are being used by some companies to gouge customers without informed consent. Customers are often switched to punitive plans and charged excessively based on their peak usage, even if it occurs infrequently.

Ms. Savage clarified the distinction between network and retail tariffs and explained that the Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC) is proposing new rules to protect consumers. These rules would require customers to opt into time-of-use tariffs and provide a three-year period during which they cannot be automatically switched to such tariffs.

I asked what were the tangible benefits of smart meters for consumers and was told smart meters help manage peak demand and reduce the need for network investment, ultimately benefiting consumers by keeping bills down. That seems to be a hollow promise given power bills have only gone up for many people who have had smart meters installed.

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for appearing again today. We’ve discussed at length—I think it was with you, Ms Savage—smart meters. You’ve regularly touted that they are a good thing, and you’ve spoken about the Australian Energy Regulator’s need to have them rolled out as widely as possible as quickly as possible. 

Ms Savage: That’s not us. That would be the Australian Energy Market Commission who’s talked about that. 

Senator ROBERTS: What’s actually happening is that smart meters are being used to gouge customers. Many companies are not getting informed consent from consumers before changing customers over to incredibly punitive plans. Then those smart meters are being used to pinpoint the exact time someone is using their maximum amount of power, and the companies are charging the customer as if they’re doing that the entire period. What we’ve heard of is, for example, a family might be away on holiday for a couple of weeks. They come back near the end of the month, and they throw everything in the dryer and the washing machine. Their demand goes way up, and they’re charged at that rate for the whole month. That’s clearly gouging them. Are there no protections for the consumer who wants to have their smart meter removed, and what are you doing to crack down on those predatory power companies? 

Ms Savage: Thank you for the question. I think there’s just a distinction I’d like to make between a network tariff and a retail tariff. The electricity rules require network tariffs to become increasingly cost reflective, but a retailer’s job is to manage the risk on behalf of customers. As you can imagine, the price of power in the wholesale market fluctuates every day between minus $1,000 and $17,000. 

Senator ROBERTS: It does these days, yes. 

Ms Savage: It always has, actually. The cap has been different, but it’s always been highly volatile in the NEM. A retailer’s job is to package up a product for a customer that manages that risk for them. Networks have a set of cost-reflective tariffs that they show to retailers as well because of the way in which the cost of a network is really about the maximum use of the network. If all of us in this room decided to turn everything on at exactly the same time, the network has to be built big enough to accommodate that. I’m sure you can appreciate that. What the network is doing is giving to the retailer a signal about when they’ve got more or less capacity available in their network, and then retailers package up that network signal and that wholesale signal and give it to a retailer. The Australian Energy Market Commission has recognised that, with the rollout of smart meters, more and more customers are being put on to tariffs that they may not understand, the sort of tariff you just described, so they’ve actually got a draft report out at the moment which is suggesting that there should be a longer period of time for customers. Three years I think is what they’ve proposed, and Mr Duggan might want to talk a little bit more about this, given it’s not my agency, but they’re giving customers a three-year window where retailers can’t put them on to a time-of-use tariff. Even if they get a smart meter, they couldn’t go automatically on to one of those time-of-use tariffs. Did you want to add to that? 

Mr Duggan: Just two additional things. It must be an opt in. Under what’s being proposed by the AEMC, you must opt into a time-of-use tariff, not be forced on a time-of-use tariff. The other element is, if you choose not to opt in, then you continue to face the flat tariff you would’ve before—building in additional consumer protections. 

Ms Savage: For the three years. 

Mr Duggan: For the three years. 

Senator ROBERTS: What protections are available in the National Electricity Rules for consumers against power companies that are using the smart meters you’re encouraging to be installed to gouge people? 

Ms Savage: This rule change that Simon has just referred to I’ve referred to will put that protection in place. 

Senator ROBERTS: Is that what’s it’s designed to do? Is that why you’re bringing it in? 

Ms Savage: Yes. 

Senator ROBERTS: What tangible benefit are consumers supposedly getting out of smart meters? 

Ms Savage: It’s a really great question. I’m going to give you a bit of a techie answer, but in Victoria, where we’ve had smart meters for some time, when we look at the rate of asset utilisation and the distribution system and compare to jurisdictions that don’t have smart meters, there is actually much higher utilisation. We see utilisation rates in the high 70s, whereas the average utilisation rate across the National Electricity Market is more like 43 per cent. Part of that is because the smart— 

Senator ROBERTS: How do you measure utilisation? 

Ms Savage: How much network is built to meet peak demand versus how much latent for the rest of the day. 

Senator ROBERTS: Is the idea to try and decrease the amount of peak network capacity? 

Ms Savage: It’s to try to ensure that, basically, we ‘ve got loads filling up the holes in the day so we’re not building too much network, that’s right. What you see in Victoria is the level of utilisation is much greater, so the overall network cost is much smaller. Customers are really benefitting from the reduced need to invest in networks, because of improved utilisation, so that’s one benefit. We also— 

Senator ROBERTS: Excuse me, Ms Savage. Is that because consumers know when to utilise the network? 

Ms Savage: That’s part of it, and it can be the visibility the network has over some of these assets as well. I know you and I have talked before about some of the different types of tariffs that exist in Queensland, like controlled load tariffs et cetera, particularly with pool pumps and things like that. Being able to move these types of discretionary loads—not heating, cooling, dishwashers or lights, but some of those moveable loads through the day—can actually avoid investment in the network, which is a great thing for consumers in keeping bills down. 

Senator ROBERTS: Last question related to smart meters. I raised at a previous session the issue of air conditioners being throttled by power companies. You seemed unaware of that issue when I raised it. Have you had time to review the article I supplied confirming that actually did happen at an alarming frequency? I think it was six times in a matter of months. 

Ms Savage: I think that was a question about the PeakSmart device. You gave it to us on notice, and we’ve responded on notice. Is that correct, Steph? Yes. 

At Senate Estimates I asked the Australian Energy Regulator if they were concerned that there seems to be increasing control over people’s electricity and access to electricity. It seems to be a case of “see no evil” at the Energy Regulator after hundreds of thousands of Queenslanders had their air-cons remotely throttled by the Government.

As the grid gets more unstable because of net-zero policies the government needs more control over electricity use to avoid damage to infrastructure.

One Nation will oppose this WEF inspired control dystopia at every turn.

Transcript

Senator ROBERTS: Thank you for appearing again today. I have a question about the emergency backstop mechanism from the Queensland government’s Department of Energy and Climate. It’s implemented in Queensland and it allows the government to turn off people’s solar panels at will. A lot of people in Queensland were shocked when the government reached into their homes and controlled their air conditioning units 170,000 times in the last two months. Now we’re finding out the government can turn off people’s solar panels as well. I don’t understand why the panels on someone’s house would have to be remotely cut off, even for self-consumption. As the regulator, do you have any data on how many of these generation signalling devices have been installed in Queensland under this emergency backstop mechanism and how many are installed nationally? 

Ms Savage : Is your question about smart inverters? 

Senator ROBERTS: It’s about smart meters that are cutting off air conditioning units and cutting off solar panels. 

Ms Savage : There is a backstop mechanism that’s been put in place through the Energy and Climate Change Ministerial Council, which I don’t know if the department wishes to comment on. Essentially, it’s to avoid situations of what they call minimum demand, where you might have— 

Senator ROBERTS: Minimal demand? 

Ms Savage : Minimum demand problems. It’s where in system operation you might have so much solar in the system— 

Senator ROBERTS: Like the middle of the day. 

Ms Savage : That’s right. South Australia is where it’s been most acute. You might have so much that you can’t keep a stable minimum generation load in place. Solar is turned off during those emergency situations to ensure that you can keep that minimum stable generation load. I’m not aware of the figures that you’ve just quoted around the number of times it’s been done in Queensland, so I’ll look to my colleagues, Ms Jolly or Mr Duggan, to see if they can assist. 

Mr Duggan : I was going to ask if you could give us a sense of where those figures came from, Senator, because I hadn’t heard them before. 

Senator ROBERTS: I can get back to you on that. It was widely reported in the press last week. 

Ms Savage : It’s not consistent with my understanding, so I think we’d need to see the figures. 

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. We’ll get them to you. Under the National Electricity Rules, what remedy or compensation is available to a homeowner if their solar panels are turned off remotely and they suffer some kind of damage because of that? 

Ms Savage : Again, it’s not an area of the AER’s responsibility. I’m not sure whether there are compensation payments in place—I don’t think there are. 

Mr Duggan : I think having access to the information that you’ve got would help us out enormously, but, to me, the direction of the question is more one that goes to AEMO’s management of the grid. I suspect they would be operating that part of the system. If we can get the information from you, we’ll endeavour to work with those— 

Senator ROBERTS: Doesn’t the Australian Energy Regulator oversee the whole lot? 

Ms Savage : Yes, but not necessarily the way in which the system is operated, and that’s a system operation question. We make sure people comply with the rules. One of the things the Australian Energy Regulator is doing is working with the network companies to do what’s called flexible export limits. This is to ensure that you have a greater opportunity to optimise the solar system across the whole grid so that we’re not seeing solar panels being turned off unnecessarily. Did you want to add anything, Mr Cox? 

Mr Cox : No. I think that’s basically right. At the moment, solar panels, as you mentioned, are turned off to preserve the stability of the grid. It’s a fairly rigid arrangement. Perhaps a more flexible arrangement would allow people to export more frequently at times that are convenient to them, and that’s something we’re exploring with the various network businesses. 

Senator ROBERTS: You used the word ‘acute’ and talk about ensuring a stable minimum generation load. These things—solar and wind—have introduced a hell of a lot of management issues, which adds costs and risk to the system. 

Ms Savage : I think they add cost and risk at times through the day, but they’re also at times free. From that perspective, we see a lot of negative prices—in South Australia and Queensland, in particular—through the middle of the day, which lowers overall average prices of the system, but at other times of the day there are costs to manage the system. Ms Jolly has just reminded me that we do have the export services network performance report, which looks at how the networks are and how much solar energy is being exported into the grid. That report might be useful to you too. 

Senator ROBERTS: Okay. Could you send us that, please. 

Ms Savage : Yes. 

Senator ROBERTS: You may not be able to answer this question, but you’re the overseer. How many air conditioners have been installed with remote demand management systems under the PeakSmart program in Queensland? 

Ms Savage : I wouldn’t have access to that data. 

Senator ROBERTS: Would you be able to get it on notice? 

Ms Savage : I don’t think we would have that as an agency; that sounds like a Queensland government program. 

Senator ROBERTS: But you’re overseeing the national. 

Ms Savage : We oversee the bits that are within the national electricity law and rules. State based programs usually are done through state based legislation. 

Senator ROBERTS: So they can operate independently? 

Ms Savage : If the states have their own legislation, there will be elements that will operate through that. 

Senator ROBERTS: Are you concerned that there seems to be increasing control over people’s use of electricity and access to electricity? 

Ms Savage : In Queensland there has been direct load control of air conditioners and pool pumps for a very long time, for more than 20 years. From that perspective, it is not a new thing in Queensland; it has always been a part of the system operation in Queensland. 

Senator ROBERTS: What about other states? Is it increasing? 

Ms Savage : We would have to look at the numbers. I don’t have the numbers in front of me. 

Senator ROBERTS: Could you get them on notice, please. 

Ms Savage : Ms Jolly, would we have those numbers? 

Ms Jolly : I’m not sure. They may come from the distributors who run those programs autonomously. 

Senator ROBERTS: Do you how many smart meters have been installed in Queensland? 

Ms Savage : I probably know how many smart meters there are in Queensland. We are at about 47 per cent in Queensland. Is that right? We’d have to take that on notice. 

Senator ROBERTS: If you could, please. Forty-seven per cent of households have smart metres? 

Ms Savage : We looked at this last week, so I’m trying to remember what the answer to that is. But I think that we’re heading into that territory in most of the jurisdictions now—up towards the high 40 per cents. 

Senator ROBERTS: Is there anything in the National Electricity Rules that enshrines the right of a customer to refuse a smart meter? At the moment many of the programs have opt-out clauses, but my question is whether there is anything in the Electricity Rules that will stop an electricity company if they decide to try to force someone to take a smart meter, to make it mandatory. 

Ms Savage : I think I’ll need take that on notice as well. 

Senator ROBERTS: It seems like there is increasing power over people’s use of electricity. I’ll just ask a few questions; you may not be able to answer these. It is about the emergency backstop mechanism website. The government says that the emergency backstop mechanism ‘is an important step in supporting Queensland’s transition to a more coordinated electricity system’. Is the electricity system becoming more coordinated, controlled? 

Senator McAllister: Senator Roberts, we’ve canvassed this a few times over the course of the day. It’s very difficult for officials to answer questions about documents when we don’t know the provenance of the documents or the dates they were published or we don’t have the document in front of us. Are you able to table that or perhaps provide us with a web link? 

Senator ROBERTS: Sure. It was a website, last updated 12 December 2023, from the Department of Energy and Climate in the Queensland government. 

Senator McAllister: I see. So it’s a Queensland government— 

Senator ROBERTS: Yes. 

Senator McAllister: I’m not sure that the Commonwealth government can answer questions about Queensland government programs. The AER may have information for you, but there are limits on what we can discuss in this forum. 

Senator ROBERTS: I understand that, Minister. I’m just looking at what the Queensland government is saying about the ‘more coordinated electricity system’ and I thought that that might come under the Australian Energy Regulator. 

Ms Savage : I would probably say that an electricity system must be coordinated—it has always been coordinated—because you have to have instantaneous meeting of supply and demand. That’s why you have a system operator to make sure that you’ve got generation resources available when people demand it. That level of coordination is fundamental to ensuring that we can keep a stable voltage waveform in the system. The physics of that demands it. To answer your question, it has always been a coordinated system and it will need to be remain a coordinated system. 

Senator ROBERTS: It says it’s becoming ‘more coordinated’. 

CHAIR: On this notion of the national energy grid and the role of the states, I think what we’re probably tripping over here is the situation where there is a national plan and the states each have a set of responsibilities. How they then roll out those responsibilities is sometimes done in the state and not necessarily part of the purview of— 

Senator ROBERTS: I understand that. I’m trying to find out whether or not you have any role in that or any information about that. 

Ms Savage : I’m happy to try and answer your questions. They’re just not necessarily directly in my patch, but I’ll help you however I can. 

Senator ROBERTS: That’s about all I had. You’ve already answered the last one I had.