“Since the start of the pandemic, countries have heavily invested in the development of control strategies that aim to contain the spread of COVID-19. Australian citizens have sporadically faced lockdowns. Senator Malcolm Roberts from the One Nation Party talks to us about the approach towards the COVID-19 situation taken by governments. Watch this video for exclusive insights.”
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Transcript
James Preston:
Well, hello and welcome to another edition of Executive Corner Expert Talks, I’m James Preston. And Australia has reached a boiling point with citizens of Greater Sydney having now been locked down for over two months. More protests likely on the way and hollow promises constantly being made by not only the New South Wales state government, but that of Prime Minister, Scott Morrison. It’s fair to say that the people have had enough. The gap between the everyday Australian and the likes of Gladys Berejiklian, or Dan Andrews in Victoria continues to grow each and every day. But one politician who has been particularly outspoken about the approach towards the lockdowns, and of course the COVID situation in a larger aspect by our various governments is Senator Malcolm Roberts from the One Nation Party. And he now joins me live on Kalkine TV. Malcolm, a very good afternoon to you.
Malcolm Roberts:
Thank you, James, for the welcome, it’s a pleasure to be here with you.
James Preston:
Malcolm, great to have you on. Let’s start with the obvious one here. Now, we’ve been witnessing a lot of tampering with freedoms. There’s been lockdowns for a long period of time. Now, 18 months, we’ve been dealing with ons and offs in this regard. What’s your approach to the entire thing?
Malcolm Roberts:
My approach is really simple. First of all, well, I mentioned this back, in the first single day session of parliament dealing with this coronavirus back on Monday, March 23rd. I said to the government, we will wave everything through because we’re looking at tens of thousands of deaths overseas. We realised it’s probably serious, so we don’t know much about it. Let’s get on with it, but we want you to get the data. We want you to build a comprehensive plan for managing this and we will hold you accountable. And what I’ve been driven by is, you said it a moment ago, hollow statements from members of parliament and premiers and the Prime Minister, hollow statements. People have had a gut full of this, James. This has been mismanaged, COVID exposed the mismanagement of our country. We started COVID with no masks, with no capacity to really manufacture solid material.
Malcolm Roberts:
We’ve still got that, but we also now have 18 months confirmed mismanagement of this. So my approach is very simple. I’ve confirmed it with Senate Estimates, with the Chief Medical Officer and the Department of Health Secretary. And they both confirmed my list of seven strategies for managing this virus. I asked them specifically, have I missed anything? No. Is there anything in my list of seven that shouldn’t be there? No. So the first one is lockdowns, but even that should be used only initially and then put aside. I’m happy to expand on that in a minute. The second one is testing, tracing and quarantining like Taiwan, highly successful, but we are failing at it.
Malcolm Roberts:
Third one, some basic restrictions like social distancing, maybe masks, but from what I understand masks, we can discuss that more, masks are not the go. Vaccines, if they’re tested, if they’re properly proved and if they’re thoroughly tested, and these vaccines are not. Fifth one, Ivermectin or any other approved antiviral. Now the Chief Medical Officer and the Secretary of the Health Department, both confirm that that’s a valid strategy. We’re not using that. We could end this nonsense immediately. Sixth is personal hygiene, personal behaviours. And the seventh is health and fitness. That’s a comprehensive approach. And we’re seeing the federal and state governments do only one each and they’re making a mess of it.
James Preston:
Now look, it’s a pretty comprehensive list. Let’s just touch on the first point there, in terms of lockdowns being, I suppose, a final measure to approach with. When Scott Morrison, of course, our Prime Minister, he released a series of different phases. And part of that was supposed to be lockdowns as of course, a final decision here. It was supposed to be the stop gap solution if all else failed. But what we’ve seen in the last two months or so is that, that seems to be pretty much the first approach. So how we ended up in a position where that’s now the desire, I suppose, from our politicians, even though it was about a month before that, that we had this new line of messaging.
Malcolm Roberts:
Well, we haven’t got the data from the government and I don’t believe the government is following the data. None of the states, not the federal government, their plans are shooting each other, blaming each other, avoiding, dodging, ducking, weaving. They’re not being accountable and they are not presented the data. I asked the Chief Medical Officer for the data. He gave it to me. This virus is highly transmissible, but it has low severity to moderate severity. We also know within that group of people, that within the population, there are distinct segments, the old, for example, and those with comorbidities needs special precautions. So what we need to have is a comprehensive plan, a detailed plan. Now the World Health Organisation itself has said, and it’s a corrupt, dishonest, incompetent body. Nonetheless, even it has said openly, that lockdowns are for use initially and not thereafter.
Malcolm Roberts:
Lockdowns are used to get control of the virus. The very fact that the Prime Minister is bankrolling the states on one policy, and that is lockdowns, shows that we have not got control of the virus. We are not managing the virus, James. The virus is managing the states. The federal government is pouring money in the largest transfer of wealth from taxpayers to multinational companies that we have ever seen. It’s bankrolling the vaccine manufacturers, and they’re now having plummeting efficacy. So we are on a mess. This will continue and continue and continue until we wake up to ourselves.
James Preston:
Well, Malcolm, as part of the lockdowns, one thing that we’ve all been enduring, I suppose, is Gladys Berejiklian and Brad Hazzard addressing New South Wales each day with quite repetitive reports really. Now, I personally have quite a huge issue with how they are run. There never seems to be a message of hope. And for me, the language that’s used is just as important as the overall message. Why do you think the information is being conveyed in the way that it is, where we’re focusing on case numbers or positive results, as opposed to, for example, doing 115,000 tests. And then only 150 come back as positive, surely that should equate to some sort of goodwill for the community.
Malcolm Roberts:
Well, I don’t think they know what they’re doing. And quite clearly they don’t. Governor DeSantis in Florida enacted one lockdown upfront in Florida last year. He then subsequently very quickly apologised to the people of Florida. Now remember, Florida has a very high proportion of elderly people. Governor DeSantis promised his people that he would never do another lockdown because it failed. In the United States, we have 50 states and you can compare their performance. Those on lockdowns are doing not as well as those without lockdowns. California is a basket case and has been on virtually continual lockdown for months. It’s a mess. States that are freeing things up are far better performed when it comes to health.
Malcolm Roberts:
There are three aspects to this virus. The first is health, that’s got to be the first priority. The second one is freedom, basic freedom. Now freedom is essential for getting people’s minds and hearts into gear to solve the problems with regard to our health. The third one is governance and accountability. We are seeing an absolutely failed system at work here with the state and federal governments. We do need hope, the data gives us hope. This vaccine can be managed quite effectively as some countries overseas are showing, as states without lockdowns in America are showing, and without a vaccine. We have some countries, some states overseas that are highly effective in managing this virus by using Ivermectin, which the government has turned away from in this country without the due proper analysis.
James Preston:
Well, Malcolm, we’ll get to vaccines itself in a moment because obviously that is tied in with Ivermectin. And also we obviously have to tread quite carefully there because we know what has been happening previously with YouTube, for example, if we try and discuss such a topic. But I want to ask you this question, it might be a bit of a loaded one given your role as a Senator, but is there any merit in trying to, I suppose, tie politician salaries to lockdowns. If we, for example, go into a lockdown or stay in a lockdown for a prolonged period, would parliamentarians such as Berejiklian, Dan Andrews or Annastacia Palaszczuk, those who are in charge of making the decision, should they have their pay slashed to that of the disaster payment that they’re offering people who have had their livelihoods destroyed? Do you think that would create some sort of a different outcome?
Malcolm Roberts:
Yes, it would. But, and I agree with that sentiment and that idea. I don’t know the practicalities and the legalities of doing that. However, it would put responsibility back, but there’s an even better way. And that’s to vote some of these people out, that would really cut their pay. We need scrutiny. This lockdown nonsense will continue in our country until the people wake up and hold the governments accountable. That’s what’s happened in this country. We’ve had 80 years of atrocious governments that has let the people down. We’ve destroyed our manufacturing capability, our productive capacity. We have become dependent on overseas countries. We have the world’s best people. We have abundant resources, energy resources, metals resources, minerals resources. We have a fabulous agricultural sector. We have water that needs to just be moved around properly and efficiently. We are in shortage of many of the things that we should be abundant.
Malcolm Roberts:
We’re exporting our coal, our iron ore to other countries to turn into steel. And then we import the steel back. This is crazy. The people in this country have to wake up and have to make sure that they understand it’s not just a Morrison liberal national government. It’s not just a potential Albanese government. My goodness, I don’t know which would be worse. But the problem is parliamentary system in this country has stopped holding governments accountable. And that’s the key thing. And the way to hold parliaments accountable and to change the focus and drive of their parliament is to change the parliament. I’m not talking about changing the constitution. I’m talking about the changing the composition through the ballot box. That’s the way a democracy works. We’ve had 80 years of failed governance, and now we need to change that and start voting for a different parliament, an independent parliament to make sure that we hold governments accountable.
James Preston:
Malcolm, take your point there, but let’s now move on to vaccines. You’ve been a rather outspoken critic about the approach that both federal and state governments across Australia have been taking to date. For example, we’re seeing in your home of Queensland, the concept now of no jab no entry being proposed. Now that is of course, despite the fact that people who’ve been vaccinated can still contract it. They can get breakthrough infections and then obviously transmit them onto other people. So what’s your position on the concept of mandatory vaccinations?
Malcolm Roberts:
Totally opposed to it. I want to make it very clear, James. I wholeheartedly support medicines that have been tested thoroughly and proven to be safe, effective, and preferably affordable. I’m opposed completely to using untested medicines, untested drugs, and completely opposed and strongly opposed to forcing those drugs, untested drugs on people at the threat of losing their livelihood, which is what’s happening. Now, we have a range of people with a different views on vaccine. Some are vaccine compliant. Some are vaccine reluctant, some are vaccine hesitant, some are vaccine resistant and some are vaccine opponents. Generally speaking, I’m hesitant. Give me the data and then I’ll make my mind. It must be an informed choice from everyone, an informed choice. So I have a right as a Senator to listen to my constituents, to share the data I have. And I know that YouTube and Facebook are banning people for saying certain things.
Malcolm Roberts:
So, but that shows that we haven’t got a democracy anymore. What we need to do is to recognise that there’s this whole, there’s a broad spectrum of views towards vaccines. When people start calling people vaccine deniers, or anti-vaxxers, that’s a way of suppressing debate. That’s all it is. It’s a smear. There’s no data that goes with it. Anyone is allowed to have their own view about vaccines. That’s a free country. Everyone should have the free right to have an informed consent before they give their consent. To have an informed choice. It’s my body, my choice. It’s your body, your choice. And if you’re different from me, so be it. I don’t care. Now, vaccines, I’ve asked the Chief Medical Officer, the Head of the Therapeutic Goods Administration and the Secretary of the Department of Health in federal parliament, federal Senate Estimates about vaccines.
Malcolm Roberts:
I asked them, are they 100% safe? No, they’re not. What is the dosage required? We don’t know. How often will we have to get vaccine injections? We don’t know. Will there be booster shots? We don’t know. Will we be able to remove masks and restrictions and lockdowns? We don’t know. We all do know a few things, James, and that is these vaccines, as Pfizer has admitted, its own vaccine, the efficacy has plummeted very shortly after the vaccines have been administered. Israel is now finding an 11 fold increase in COVID cases in Israel. We know that they’re very concerned about the plummeting of vaccine efficacy. We know that Pfizer has admitted that they have made an application to the federal, the Food and Drug Administration in the United States to administer a third booster shot.
Malcolm Roberts:
How many booster shots do we need? How many booster shots will there be? And what we do know is that there have been massive adverse effects in America. There’ve been over 10,000 deaths recorded. There’ve been a thousand miscarriages. There’ve been people with heart problems, lung problems, other diseases. That we know also that Pfizer’s vaccine causes, the European Health Organisation has recognised that Pfizer’s vaccine can cause myocarditis of the heart and yet Pfizer now makes a drug to treat myocarditis. Pfizer made $18.9 billion in revenue in the last three months, the last quarter. It made a profit around $4 billion. And yet it is making people sick and getting money for that, and then selling more drugs to cure them from the disease that it’s caused and making more money from that. So what we’ve got here is a really tight circle where we do know the facts show that these vaccines haven’t got the efficacy they expected and even their own drug manufacturers are admitting that
James Preston:
Well, Malcolm, I think two points I’ll jump on from there is obviously, it’s quite important here to point out as well, just for our due diligence that no vaccine is 100% safe. We know that for a fact, there can always be adverse reactions. But certainly take your point that we don’t have long-term data for these either. We know that these are being pushed out. In general, the large percentage of people who are taking them aren’t having adverse reactions, but they do still exist. And that is something that does need to be discussed moving forward. I think that’s a very important issue.
James Preston:
One thing I want to ask as well is just for yourself, are you, I mean, you mentioned that you’re vaccine hesitant. Do you believe you will get the vaccine at some point? Or are you completely steering away from it until more data arrives?
Malcolm Roberts:
No, I won’t be getting the vaccine.
James Preston:
Okay. All right, well, let’s move on now to the concept of vaccine passports. [crosstalk 00:16:20].
Malcolm Roberts:
There are just too many risks there. [crosstalk 00:16:20]
James Preston:
Now we’ve seen some huge protests in France where they’ve obviously implemented that policy. It’s obviously a very loaded issue. What is your take with vaccine passport? I’d imagine it’s quite similar to the concept towards mandatory vaccinations.
Malcolm Roberts:
Correct. Mandatory vaccinations are murky for a start, because there is some people who say that they’re possible through employers. But I’d urge employees to put the question back on the employer and to indemnify the employee against death or against any serious injuries or illnesses. Now, vaccine passport, mandating vaccines may or may not be legal. That’s very vague and very fuzzy right now. Regardless, it’s unethical. So even if it is legal and the federal government cannot make it legal, it’s in the constitution that prevents that. The state government can in certain states and state governments have, others could change the law to make it legal. But in this case, James, what we’ve already seen is the federal government going through the state governments. So it’s really a federal initiative, which means it’s illegal. But it’s certainly unethical to force anyone and certainly unethical to force someone at the threat of losing their livelihood.
Malcolm Roberts:
That means a person has a choice between eating or not getting the vaccine. That’s it. If you want to eat, then you’ve got to get the vaccine. That’s totally wrong. And so vaccine prisons, I call them, not vaccine passport, it’s a vaccine prison because they’re designed to exclude people who are not vaccinated, who choose to not be vaccinated. That means we’re denying people their basic rights, their basic rights to move around, Facebook and YouTube even denying their basic rights to freedom of speech. Denying people livelihoods, denying people travel, denying people to exchange, denying people social activities, denying people to mix with their families.
Malcolm Roberts:
We have seen the real issue in this vaccine. And, sorry, in this virus, is not just health, it’s freedom and it’s government accountability. Governments have quickly moved into control and always throughout human history, we have control versus freedom. And at the moment, freedom is losing out. These vaccine prisons as I call them, they’re not vaccine passports, they’re vaccine prisons to restrict people, to force them to be vaccinated. That is immoral, unethical and totally wrong. Leave it up to each person to choose, but above all, give them the information so that they can make an informed choice.
James Preston:
Well, Malcolm, I think that’s a pretty good note to finish on the entire concept behind what you’re talking about here is basically freedom. Freedom of movement, freedom of choice, freedom of decision-making. So I want to just thank you so much for your time and getting across your insights today.
Malcolm Roberts:
You’re welcome, James. Health, freedom and government accountability. And your pleasure to be on the interview with you.
James Preston:
Brilliant, thank you very much, Malcolm. That is One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts. And for all of our sake, hopefully we can find a way out of this mess very soon. And of course, manage to keep as many of our freedoms as Malcolm has been alluding to intact as possible. Well, that’s all for this edition of Expert Talks. If you missed any part of this conversation or you’d like to browse our complete catalogue of expert talks, simply head across to the website, kalkinemedia.com. And also our YouTube channel, Kalkine Media. I’m James Preston, signing off for now.
