Transcript
[Paul Marcus]
Right now though, as we do each and every Thursday, we have a chat with the wonderful One Nation Senator, Malcolm Roberts. Good morning to you Malcolm.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Good day Marcus, how are you?
[Paul Marcus]
Look I’m okay. This icare scandal has deepened in New South Wales. And Senator it reminded me a couple of weeks ago, when you raised the issue about Simon, a coal miner in the hunter valley.
You recently went to the Hunter and you released a video introducing key points. Now I’ve had a look at it. It is a massive issue. I can’t tolerate abuse of people, I really can’t. You say the mine owner and employer are acting unlawfully, immorally, and unethically. Can you tell us a little bit about Simon’s story again?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Sure. Simon Turner is the human face of a crisis in this nation’s broken industrial relations laws. The people in agencies who are supposed to protect workers have turned their back on him. That’s unions, employers, industry groups, state, government departments, state ministers, federal government departments, federal agencies.
They’ve turned their backs on hundreds of the workers at New South Wales largest coal mine, BHPs Mount Arthur North mine, Mount Arthur mine I’m sorry. They’re not protected. And they’ve turned their back on thousands of workers across Australia, including my state Queensland and in New South Wales who have lost some basic entitlements that everyone has taken for granted.
The people in agencies, Marcus, who are meant to be protecting workers have enabled the exploitation and abuse of these people. The state and federal government departments, employers, industry groups, unions, safety inspectors, political parties, representatives in parliament have all failed their workers.
[Paul Marcus]
What happened to Simon? I mean, you say that he’s been failed and we’ll get to that, but what exactly happened to him? What were his injuries?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, Simon was driving a truck while he was employed by the Chandler MacLeod labour hire firm. BHB runs the mine. They’ve got permanent workers there. They’ve also got around 400 or so, what they call casuals, but they’re on the permanent roster. And they’ve been working there for years. The truck that Simon was driving was being loaded.
The coal digger operator, didn’t see Simon’s truck because of the dusty conditions. The whole mine had being shut down apparently, except for this one unit and the coal digger smashed his truck. The massive collision directly injured Simon causing swollen L three, L four, and L five discs in Simon’s back, a pinched sciatic nerve, pinch cranial nerve, and a lateral tear in one of the discs.
The lateral tear in his back leaks fluid into the spine and the resulting nerve damage goes all the way down his left leg, leaving him permanently in pain. I’ve watched this man. It is remarkable what he puts up with. As a result, Simon’s leg collapses without notice and he deals with this ongoing posttraumatic stress disorder and depression from that day 2014. So Simon’s injuries have left him totally and permanently disabled, and he cannot return to work.
[Paul Marcus]
Well, that’s what I was gonna say. I mean, this is a debilitating injury that doesn’t allow this man to work and has ruined his future livelihood. Now, I guess the BHP management, I mean, they would have looked into this incident. Now, what’s been said by them?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, it’s amazing. This is where it gets even worse.
[Paul Marcus]
Yeah.
[Malcolm Roberts]
A BHP manager, even though BHP wasn’t the employer, the BHP manager turned up at hospital and another BHP manager tells Simon to his face that if Simon reported the injury, he would not have a job.
[Paul Marcus]
What!
[Malcolm Roberts]
That’s breaking the law. You must report injuries. So Simon returned to the mine and was told to sit out the shift on a cold steel bench. Imagine that, hip and spinal damage and you’re sitting on a cold steel bench. And what we’ve done, we’ve been to the Hunter, even though I’m a Senator for Queensland, because we were so concerned and no one’s taking any action on these people.
We met with other miners who have been traumatised in 2014, ’15, ’16. And yet, if you go to the New South Wales government report for labour hire miners in those years, they reported no injuries for labour hire miners, none.
[Paul Marcus]
That’s rubbish. I mean, why would the management, why would the supervisor in this case, perhaps not report the injury? What is it? Is it in their best interests not to, or what’s the situation here?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yeah, you’re quite perceptive. The managers at Mount Arthur had a safety bonus that encourages not reporting injuries. If they had injuries, then their safety bonus would drop.
So they would cop it in their wallet. So Simon wasn’t actually getting workers’ compensation or accident pay. Now that’ll shock many miners. It’ll shock many workers around the country. So, you know, desperate for cash. Six months later, Simon tried to access his coal long service leave. They told him he’d been sacked just weeks after his injury.
Simon had not even been told by his labour hire employer Chandler MacLeod nor by BHP, Simon went on to lose his home and he then started living in his parents’ garage, sleeping in his car and three times this man considered ending his life, three times.
[Paul Marcus]
All right. I mean, I don’t understand this, why this has been able to flourish? I mean, Chandler MacLeod pay rates are apparently 40% less than permanent BHP workers on the same 12 month roster as the permanents.
And they’re basically doing the same kind of work, but they’re doing it with no basic work entitlements, like sick leave, annual leave. Look this bloke he’s not even entitled to anything really. I mean, what are you saying about this in Senate estimates?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, he is entitled to it, but that’s just it, he’s not getting any of these things.
[Paul Marcus]
Right, I see.
[Malcolm Roberts]
But I applaud your use of data again. You’re right, Chandler McLeod pay rates for these so-called casuals who are really permanent on a permanent roster when working there for years, in some cases, are 40% less than permanent BHB rosters, then BHP employees, sorry.
And Chandler McLeod people have no basic work entitlements, like sick leave and annual leave. And what’s more is that the fair work commission have authorised the Chandler McLeod Enterprise Agreement and the CFMMEU in the Hunter Valley, authorised it and approved it. They’ve signed off on it.
[Paul Marcus]
So the unions endorsed it.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes.
[Paul Marcus]
Well, that’s not looking after members, and that’s certainly not looking after miners in the Hunter.
[Malcolm Roberts]
No, it’s not. And then it goes even further, as you alluded to, or as I said, a little while ago, that Simon approached the long service leave to see if he could get an advance on his long service leave entitlements, just get some cash.
[Paul Marcus]
Yeah.
[Malcolm Roberts]
And so bear this in mind. That long service leave contributions for Simon were underpaid and not audited. So my questions in senate estimates started finding these chinks and the Senate estimates said, “No, no, no, they’d be correct.” Sorry, the coal long service leave in senate estimates said their records are correct.
“Have you audited them?” “No”, but they’ve, since after my pressure was applied, they’ve since audited to them and found Simon was correct. Note this though Marcus, Coal long service leaves board has a mixture of directors from the CFMMEU and the minerals council or the mine owners.
And then we have other conflicts of interests. I certainly think they’re conflicts of interests, coal mines insurance, the workers compensation for the coal miners is 50, 50 owned by the New South Wales Minerals Council, the mine owners and the CFMMEU. AUSCoal super is 50, 50 CFMMEU and the State Minerals Councils, the mine owners.
AUSCoal controls the money for coal, long service leave and collects money on behalf of the government and its board is made up as I said, a minute ago, 50, 50 minerals council and the CFMMU. But here’s where it gets interesting for Icare. And I hope people in New South Wales are listening.
[Paul Marcus]
Yeah.
[Malcolm Roberts]
‘Cause your Icare has been underfunded, because it’s paying out workers’ compensation to coal miners, because Simon’s employer Chandler McLeods policy said they only had 22 office workers doing administrative jobs, not coal miners.
They had hundreds of coal miners on a far greater wage than an admin worker and with much greater risk. Now, what that means is that Simon, because he’s not covered by that policy, has been funded by basically iCare.
So the moms and dads who own small businesses and even medium sized businesses in New South Wales, if you wonder why your premiums are going up, it’s because iCare money is going to these unfunded people because a multinational Chandler MacLeod is owned by Recruit Holdings, a huge Japanese recruitment agency that works around the world.
This Japanese firm, recruit holdings, some of its subsidiaries in Australia have been receiving $2.4 billion in the last four years from federal government contracts for labour hire people in our own federal government agencies, and they are not paying for the proper workers’ compensation. That’s why Simon missed out. Instead, they’re being paid by iCare. That’s why iCare is broke, one reason why iCare is broke.
[Paul Marcus]
All right, look this is very big, the attorney general is now proposing to review IR laws, to help the recovery from COVID. It’s a bit difficult to support it, given what is going on with the laws being bypassed and broken anyway, is that right? I mean, everything, the system is broken, it obviously needs to be fixed first.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Completely correct. You’re right onto it. Now, what we’re seeing is the attorney general wants to change the IR laws to help people recover from COVID. That means what he wants to do is condone what’s happening.
What I’ve just outlined. What we need to do is to get compliance, get these laws enforced. The system is broken. You don’t change the system and bring in more breakages, you fix the system first, ensure compliance, ensure the compliance with the law. And then let’s look at fixing it. Otherwise Marcus people like Simon are the ones who we will be paying for this abuse. It’ll never be fixed.
[Paul Marcus]
Yeah.
[Malcolm Roberts]
The attorney general has his way and working for these large companies it seems, it’ll never be fixed and the workers will shoulder the burden because the union has abandoned them in the Hunter Valley, the employers and the employer industry and associations have abandoned them.
And the state government and federal government departments have abandoned them. We’re the only ones chasing this.
[Paul Marcus]
All right, well, Simon obviously needs to be a priority. I mean, I’d love to see him get his lawful and certainly moral entitlements and compensation for the trauma and suffering over the last, what, six or so years.
And also, I mean, we need to continue, I guess to apply pressure, to bring maybe some justice on those who exploited Simon, or at least enabled it, whether it’s BHP, Chandler MacLeod, the Hunter, or New South Wales division of the CFMMEU. I mean, something needs to be done, Senator.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes, definitely Marcus. And it’s really significant that if people watch the video that I’ve put out in the last three minutes, what you’ll see is the connections because the CFMMEU in the Hunter Valley started the employment of casuals. The CFMMEU’s predecessor, the Miner’s Federation, initiated casuals for a good reason because of unemployment in the late ’80s.
But the CFMMEU, then became the employer and the union representing the employees. And so that’s a conflict of interest, but the CFMMEU now endorses enterprise agreements. We’ve seen cases of enterprise agreements being sold to labour hire companies. And so the union actually started use of casuals, continued the use of casuals, enabled the use of casuals. And this has exploited workers. And some of these people are members of the union.
[Paul Marcus]
Where’s labor on this Malcolm? I mean aren’t they supposed to be looking after the worker, where are they on this? I mean, when you’re highlighting this, which you obviously are doing in Senate estimates, and you’re talking to me and in the media and you’re on social media and one nation and trying to push some changes, to IR our laws, where are labor on this. Are you getting any support at all from Anthony Albanese and the like.
[Malcolm Roberts]
Well, I’ve written to Anthony Albanese, no response. I’ve written to the local federal member, no response. Simon Turner, the injured miner-
[Paul Marcus]
What about Joel Fitzgibbon?
[Malcolm Roberts]
Yes. And Simon Turner, the injured miner himself has written to Joel six times and has never been, never got a response.
[Paul Marcus]
Well I’ll talk to Joel because Joel and I get on very well but I’ll have to leave it there, ‘Cause I’ve got the deputy premier waiting on the line, but you and I will talk further on this
[Malcolm Roberts]
When you talk Joel, remind him the issue is not casuals. That is one part of it. The issue that I’m raising goes well beyond that, into the abuse of these casuals and what the union, the employer and the labour hire firms are doing and what the state and federal governments are abandoning workers on. That’s the issue.
